MAJOR IRR Policy Change...

[vxc961]

That's because we've got fleet concentration areas with plenty of units which can support Big Navy's mission set . . . but not everyone lives in a fleet concentration area. Some people are willing to commute to a job they want, but other people aren't. In which case, you're stuck with whatever pickings are available at the NOSCs you are willing to commute to, or else cross-assigning.

And if you cross-assign, you're rolling the dice as to (a) whether there will be IDTT funds available, and (b) that your UMUIC gives enough of a shit to be serious about its cross-assigned program. Otherwise, have fun in your OSU, or being TRUIC-shifted to some random-ass unit that has nothing to do with your skill set.

If you want better utilization of those billets, perhaps Big Reserves should consider moving them to where the people are. When I went through NRUM, they showed a table with the the size of all the OSUs. Biggest one? NOSC New York City. Ye gads, the poor OIC; it's huge. Surprise, surprise. Big city away from any fleet concentration area.

I seem to recall that in the 50s, they went so far as to scatter mini-dets of jets across the country so aviators could stay current. Not saying that's necessarily reasonable today, but perhaps we could think about whether we need to park so many units co-located with their AC counterparts, or det them out to various NOSCs for the stupid readiness games, and just be willing to eat the travel costs for AT/ADT supporting the AC.

Or consider letting those guys earn points in the IRR instead of paying them to do nothing.

 

[nittany03]

Or consider letting those guys earn points in the IRR instead of paying them to do nothing.

I reiterate . . . if your experience in SELRES is "being paid to do nothing," your leadership is failing you. Even cross-assigned folks have money available to contribute to a lot greater extent than correspondence courses. It's just not an ideal arrangement if you're trying to get the face-time to be competitive for promotion, and it's extra work for the local folks to manage their cross-assigned in people.

 

[jagM3]

This is not applicable to those like myself who are prior enlisted Mustang officers.

There is a specific policy that allows reversion to an enlisted rank of equivalent TIS, etc. that you had at your offer rank if you are between 16 and 18 years when you are 2XFOS to still be able to retire. All of the policies i've seen continue to state active duty or active federal service and it remains unclear how this impacts officers already in the reserves when they are 2XFOS.

"WHAT IF I AM A LT OR LCDR (WHO WAS PRIOR ENLISTED) IN A GROUP
THAT IS NOT OFFERED CONTINUATION, BUT I HAVE BETWEEN 16 - 18 YEARS
OF SERVICE AND STILL WANT TO RETIRE FROM ACTIVE DUTY?
Contact the Officer Favorable Resignations/Separations Branch (PERS-834F) at COM
901-874-2085/2095 or DSN 882-2085/2095 for more information on the option to
revert to an enlisted status."

http://www.vr61.navy.mil/bupers-npc...ed Questions About Continuation and 2XFOS.pdf

"Resign and Re-Enlist iaw CNO Policy Memo

Active duty Lieutenant and Lieutenant Junior Grade officers with prior enlisted service that have twice failed of selection for promotion to Lieutenant Commander or Lieutenant may be eligible to resign and re-enlist (informally called "reversion") in order to reach retirement eligibility. These officers must have at least 16 years, but less than 18 years of active military service on the date they would be separated, to be eligible for reversion. For further information on eligibility requirements for officer reversion please read the CNO Policy Memo from Dec 1990. To verify your eligibility contact PERS-834F, Officer Separations, at (901) 874-2085/2095."

http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/boards/generalboardinfo/pages/statusnonselect.aspx

The key word here in Navy PERS lingo is "reversion" which means reverting from officer to enlisted. I've found policies indicating that if you were prior enlisted, you will likely revert to an E-6 and be allowed to retire, unless you were E-7 or above at time of commission then you'll be able to revert to that rank.

While the National Guard, etc. seem to be options for officers who are 2XFOS with above 16+ years, it is apparent that without a break in service we can simply just revert to being a Navy E-6 and still retire, at least from the research i've done in the last 24 hours of pouring over Navy regs, policies, and federal laws.

In terms of sanctuary at 18 years, according to federal law, it appears that O3's are also entitled to sancturary at 18 years and not just O4s:

"officers in the grades of Lieutenant Commander and below who have not been selected for promotion 2 or more times, and are within two years of qualifying for retirement on the first day of the seventh month following approval of a promotion board's results, will be retained until retirement eligible per 10 U.S.C. § 632 : US Code - Section 632. This circumstance is informally known as "sanctuary."
http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/boards/generalboardinfo/pages/statusnonselect.aspx


....So based on all of this, it does seem that retirement is almost guaranteed even if I 2XFOS -- the question is just a matter of if I can reach sancturary as an O3-E at 18 years or get 2XFOS'd at 17 years and "revert" to an E-6 and just retire that way.

I'll call PERS on Monday to get clarification of all this and will report back what they said.

In addition to the above, given that I am calling PERS on Monday to obtain clarification on this, does anyone else have any questions they would like me to ask while on the phone with PERS?

 

[vxc961]

I reiterate . . . if your experience in SELRES is "being paid to do nothing," your leadership is failing you. Even cross-assigned folks have money available to contribute to a lot greater extent than correspondence courses. It's just not an ideal arrangement if you're trying to get the face-time to be competitive for promotion, and it's extra work for the local folks to manage their cross-assigned in

Nittany, Do you think the SELRES/NOSC system is efficient and effective? I’m willing to grant you that NAVAIR SELRES is held to a different standard than shoes.

I am spring loaded to provide you several examples of time wasted on drill weekends at the NOSC, where I have pocketed over $1k, and then completed the real work unpaid, on my own time.

I’m also very well-versed on funding for cross-assigned personnel, and can tell you there’s not a secret pot of gold to fund travel, nor are TRUIC units always willing to support MUICs.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Why not just got back to SELRES? Problem solved.

 

[vxc961]

Huh? Who are you addressing Rubio? If it’s me, I am SELRES. Problem not-solved.

Edited to make sure Rubio knew I wasn’t sure who he was addressing.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Huh? Who are you addressing Rubio? If it’s me, I am SELRES. Problem not-solved.

Edited to make sure Rubio knew I wasn’t sure who he was addressing.

It was intended for those in IRR trying to stay in. Why not go back to SELRES?

 

[Sam I am]

It was intended for those in IRR trying to stay in. Why not go back to SELRES?

From what I understand, going Sel-Res is extremely problematic right now as there is a huge number of applicants for the available billets due to the low selection rates at past O-4 BOards...making it TOUGH for O-4's in the IRR to go back Sel-Res. Or is my perception in accurate?

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

I should clarify myself, as my original post comes off as pretty rude. Just curious why/why not folks want to pursue the SELRES route, get their required points and finish being retirement eligible.

 

[Jim123]

I should clarify myself, as my original post comes off as pretty rude. Just curious why/why not folks want to pursue the SELRES route, get their required points and finish being retirement eligible.

Usually it's that they don't have much control over when they get mobilized- not unless you want to deploy right away, find a deployment that fits, and ask for it. The three~ish months heads-up is a reasonable amount of time all things considered, and part of the deal of the reserves is to get deployed sooner or later (no secret about that), but for some those parts of the deal just aren't compatible with job/family/life plans for the next few years of their lives. That's how it can be a deal breaker for SELRES.

 

[Maxillarious]

I am officially now more confused than I was when this thread started last week.

 

[Flash]

...If you want better utilization of those billets, perhaps Big Reserves should consider moving them to where the people are. When I went through NRUM, they showed a table with the the size of all the OSUs. Biggest one? NOSC New York City. Ye gads, the poor OIC; it's huge. Surprise, surprise. Big city away from any fleet concentration area....but perhaps we could think about whether we need to park so many units co-located with their AC counterparts, or det them out to various NOSCs for the stupid readiness games, and just be willing to eat the travel costs for AT/ADT supporting the AC.

I'm well aware of the issues but and am sympathetic to both sides of the issue, the Navy and the individual sailors. My unit now is a microcosm of many of the issues and a few of the solutions, we are in Norfolk and usually have ~15-20% of our officer billets unfilled because enough folks don't want to come to Norfolk. But we are useful unit that is utilized regularly for some of the core functions of our parent unit so we aren't wasting time every drill weekend or on AT's. In order to mitigate some of the manning issues and utilize one of those 'overstaffed' NOSC's we split off some of our billets to a det in Houston. It is a decent solution but they still don't get the benefit of the training we regularly do, which is only available in Norfolk.

 

[Flash]

From what I understand, going Sel-Res is extremely problematic right now as there is a huge number of applicants for the available billets due to the low selection rates at past O-4 BOards...making it TOUGH for O-4's in the IRR to go back Sel-Res. Or is my perception in accurate?

It would depend on your designator but the Navy has been letting O-4 aviators, submariners and SEALs extend past 20 years the last 3-4 years, so the SELRES is still short LCDR's in those designators.

 

[bubblehead]

From what I understand, going Sel-Res is extremely problematic right now as there is a huge number of applicants for the available billets due to the low selection rates at past O-4 BOards...making it TOUGH for O-4's in the IRR to go back Sel-Res. Or is my perception in accurate?

For which designators? Some are undermanned at the O4 level. Hit me up and I can give you POC's for the people that manage this stuff at PERS. I email them often to get read on O3/O4 manning levels for IW/INTEL/IP.

 

[nittany03]

Nittany, Do you think the SELRES/NOSC system is efficient and effective?

That's not a yes/no question, so save your Few Good Men-esque attempt at dramatic cross-examination. Please. There's a difference between pointing out flaws in the system and saying "the whole thing is a waste of time." There's absolutely a reason why the stereotype of NOSC customer service is what it is. Efficient? No. Effective? If you make the effort to build relationships and teach the AC where we can add value, it can be.

But to equate the value of SELRES in general to IRR correspondence courses is ludicrous. And for reference, the cool kids didn't invite me to their cool kid flying club, either. My unit doesn't fall under CNAFR. Yet I can also quote chapter and verse to equal your wasted weekends with direct support to my AC. To include support underway, in the field with foreign militaries, and by the cross-assigned component.