long range practice rifle

[S3b_viking]

Why the heck would you want to shoot an elk at 500? I do lots of elk hunting and the longest I shot one at was 350 and that was a mistake because I thought it was at 200 when I shot (hard to judge over flat terrain), and at that range it took me two well placed shots to drop it. I was shooting a Savage .30-06 and at 350 it had just barely enough force to penetrate through both lungs. The bullet didn't even have enough energy to punch through the otherside of the elk. Otherwise all of my shots have been 75-100 yards and I don't intentionally take one past 200.

As with everyone else, get yourself a good hunting rifle with a good scope and practice, practice, practice till your arm falls off, then practice some more and you'll finally become a good shot. Don't shoot two different rifles because no two rifles have the same characteristics. Also, if you're intentionally shooting at more that 250, just save the animal and shoot yourself in the foot, cause you'll be walking forever to try and find the wounded animal.

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[Pugs]

I talked to a friend of my fathers earlier today and he suggested that I look at a Thompson Center Rifle, his suggestion was something like a 25-06 or something like that. You guys have any experience with those rifles and would they be something you would recomend?

I would certainly not suggest a 25-06 as a 500 yard Elk rifle although a lot of Elk are whacked quite effectively closer with one. I assume you're talking about a Thompson Center Icon bolt action. With an MSRP of $800 you can do better in my opinion.

You've received some good advice here and I'll try and toss in a little more relevant stuff. You're talking Elk at 500 yards. That means (to me) something that retains some reasonable energy at that range and has a selection of decent bullets as it sounds like you don't handload. So for calibers the list likely starts at .30-06 and goes up to whatever you care to shoot. Many Westerners think the .338 Win Mag is the ultimate Elk caliber. I owned one once ( a nice M70 Super Grade purchased used at Kesslerings) and I no longer own it.

As far as the actual rifle you have a lot of good choices and it's kinda up to what you like. Don't be afraid to go used! The Rem M700 is a proven solid action and 700's are cheap, allowing you to spend what you should on glass. I don't care for a two position safety so I tend more towards the Win M70's but the prices seems to have gone up (and come down a little) after the plant closed last year. A Ruger M77 is another solid choice. I'd stick with a bolt action, a Ruger #1 single shot was mentioned and while some of them are great, if you get a bad one (or even an average one) you'll struggle to make it an MOA rifle. I've had two, one great, one not.

Good glass is key and I view A-4's advice a bit excessive. Buy good glass but you don't need to go Schmidt and Bender on this rifle. A decent Leupold Vari-X III will work fine. Long run, sure (and I'm looking at S&B for my new custom .257 Roberts) but I've used Leupies for a lot of years with no issues. I'd rather have a decent scope and a decent set of binoculars than a spectacular scope alone.

Buy something in a caliber you can afford to shoot a lot. I shoot metallic silhouette once a month March to August and usually hit the range at least once more a month and I consider myself a pretty average shot. Better yet, handload. I started in high school with a Lee hand loader. With the on-line auction sites you should be able to put together a decent outfit for peanuts.

For my purposes I have a .243, a .257 Roberts and a 7mm-08. I'd be pretty comfortable shooting anything in North America, with the exception of a big grizzly or brown bear, with one of them. The increased availability of premium bullets like Barnes, Nosler Accubond and Swift among other has really made smaller caliber bullets much more effective than the past. Here's a 120 grain .284 Barnes TSX I used to kill a pig in SC last year. 75 yard shot with my 7mm-08 (a Kimber 84M) at 2800 fps. It weighed 119.9 grains on the reloading scale at home after passing through the shoulder blade, heart other shoulder blade and lodging under the skin on the other side.

 

[A4sForever]

..... Good glass is key and I view A-4's advice a bit excessive...... you don't need to go Schmidt and Bender....

Sissy.

 

[Pugs]

Sissy.

He doesn't I DO :icon_tong Action should be at my smith tomorrow. Montana Rifle Company stainless short action. 23 inch Lilja #2 contour barrel, McMillian Edge Carbon Fiber stock (expected in late Nov). All chambered in the classic .257 Bob caliber. If I'm a good boy, or not as bad as normal anyway I'll likely find that S&B in my stocking

 

[A4sForever]

..... If I'm a good boy, or not as bad as normal anyway I'll likely find that S&B in my stocking

Let's hope it's a silk stocking ....

 

[BlkPny]

I've got a lot of guns, and every gun I own is more accurate than I am.

Don't obsess about the gun. Worry about improving the shooter.

 

[WheelsUpHeelsUp]

If you want to invest that much money you might check out something like a 300 Weatherby with a Zeiss scope. Both hot and accurate but either you're playing with us or you haven't done much hunting. 1,000 yard shots are not very common unless they stocked the lunar surface with large game.

 

[WheelsUpHeelsUp]

I've got a lot of guns, and every gun I own is more accurate than I am.

Don't obsess about the gun. Worry about improving the shooter.

Sound advice!

 

[feddoc]

I talked to a friend of my fathers earlier today and he suggested that I look at a Thompson Center Rifle, his suggestion was something like a 25-06 or something like that. You guys have any experience with those rifles and would they be something you would recomend?

NFW. I've been after elk and deer since '69. A .25/06 will not deliver enough down range energy to adequately kill an elk at 500 yards. In terms of calibers, you need to look at no less than a 7mm or a
.300 magnum. I prefer a .300 Winchester Magnum loaded with 180 grain Barnes TSX bullets.

If you do this...make sure you learn how to handload. And take no shortcuts when doing so. I find that when I am working up hunting handloads for a particular rifle, I will make all combinations of 3-4 powders, 3-4 bullets and work those loads up in increments of .5 grains. I will also use nothing but match brass (and weigh them out in lots as I do the bullets). I also turn the necks. The results are in my freezer. My wife once asked my why I put so much work into loading my own. I took her to the range with her gun and mine to shoot at an 18" metal gong at 500 yards. From a supported position, I could hit it maybe half the time. Same bullets, only this time in handloads I hit it every time. ANd like other have said, don't scrimp on optics.

For Scoober...here is what happened to my last Remington purchase. This was 3 days before elk season. Two years prior the extractor broke one week before elk season. Luckily I had back up. I will stick with my Winchesters.

You might also consider a local gunsmit instead of ordering a custom rifle.

 

[scoober78]

Doc...wish I could see the pic...I just get the red X of death. Not that I have any vested interest in Remington...I've just never had a problem with them and every one I've owned has been a gem accuracy wise. Sorry you had a bad experience...how did the company react?


By the way...in case anyone <ahem, ahem> needs some additional convincing....

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/gun_columns/notes/gn0405/

 

[feddoc]

To their credit, Remington offered to fix it (re-solder)for free, even though it was slightly out of warranty. I did not explain to them that the bolt had been altered by installing a Sako-style extractor in place of the broken one. Dunno if that would have made a difference. I opted to have it drilled and tapped and soldered.

 

[sr338]

I'm not sure I fully understand. Do you want this to be for long range shooting, or for hunting? Because generally they're two different things.

Long range, you're going to want a heavy caliber, heavy barrel, heavy free floating stock (McMillan or other) etc etc. You get the picture. It will be a heavy rifle, not exactly what you're going to want to lug around hunting, and not something you'll be able to shoot unsupported at any distance. However, in the winds of ID that big bullet is going to be helpful.

Here's my personal choice. FN SPR in 308. It can stretch out to 1000 yards, but it needs someone who's a better shot than I am. Plus, if you go with a 308 out of a 24" barrel, there is a literal ton of information on the internet about long range shooting and ballistics for it.
Combine a winchester pre64 extractor with chrome lined barrel that can still shoot sub moa after 30,000 rounds - that is my idea of reliability.

 

[Pugs]

For Scoober...here is what happened to my last Remington purchase. This was 3 days before elk season. Two years prior the extractor broke one week before elk season. Luckily I had back up. I will stick with my Winchesters.

Nice! Gotta love the brazed on bolt handle.....

 

[E5B]

Interesting thread.

Will this be your first rifle?

Have you taken an elk or mule deer before? It would be easier to recommend a rifle if we knew your experience with shooting and hunting.

Couple of things on the hunting piece... most guides will not let their clients take a 400+ yard shot, no matter how expensive or accurate their rifle is. Now that being said, after a couple of hunts with the same client the guide may expand his 'box'. The reason I bring this up is when I was guiding mule deer hunts I learned my lesson on my very first guiding expedition by letting an "experienced" hunter take a 500 yard shot at a mule deer from the prone position when there was no reason to take that shot at that distance and the shot placement was terrible. Anyway, this leads into what BlkPny is saying. Sure you can have a rifle that holds a 12" group at 1000 yards (the world record is around 4" if I remember correctly) but more than likely those are under controlled conditions ie comfortable rest, slow steady breathing, decent weather conditions etc, and those are factors you are unlikely to have on a hunt. I would take a couple of animals at 150-300 yards first and then start to expand your 'box' before you go for the Carlos Hathcock shot on an animal. You will notice that a 300 yard shot on a mule deer is challenge enough no matter what kind of rifle you have.

My recommendation is go with mid-grade rifle like a CZ-550 or a ruger 77 etc(I am not a fan of the Remingtons but that is personal preference) in either a 270 or 30-06 with decent glass like a Leupold or Nikon etc and get comfortable shooting that at long ranges before you upgrade to a $5000 rig. Both calibers are very capable of fulfilling your needs as a 1000 yard rifle and good hunting rig. Something else to think about: the rifle is only part of the equation. To get the kind of accuracy you're wanting, handloading is a must.

Let us know what you decide on.

 

[phalnx62]

Right now I am looking at a Browning m-1000 Eclipse in either a 308 Win. or a 300 WSM. If you have any comments about it please let me know. I haven't decided yet about the optics so if you guys have any input about that it would be greatly appreciated. And for those of you that think I would be going short on the optics thats not the case. My father is friends with a guy back home that owns a small sportsmans store. I can have a good set of optics mailed to me from him for about 2/3 the price most people would get it. I need to know what I want first though. Let me know what you think. Thanks