Life after the RAG

[HeyJoe]

7 years in the hornet community and I never saw us eat our young. That was the Tomcat community. RPs and RRIOs were to be seen and not heard at VF-101, from what my tomcat buds have said.

That must be the exception and certainly not the rule. The RAG was always a special and fun place to be whether as stud or instructor. Ask your buds to post their experience then. I'm not buying that. The skipper and his instructors set the tone and 101 has had some great skippers...some better than others and only a very few that spoiled the legacy of a nurturing atmosphere. I'll always treasure my two passes through 101 and ate nor saw nor young eaten.

 

[Huggy Bear]

Between Brett's and Heyjoes posts I have to laugh,

My FRS experience at 106 as a stud... Real good IPs. Not a single dick in the whole squadron. There was no ready room divide, studs could and did sit at the same table as the instructors. We had several meals out with instructors on det.

My FRS experience at 122 as an IP. The studs have their own little corner and don't really socialize with Instructors. We never go out to eat together on det. All, and I repeat ALL, of the former tomcat guys that instructed with me talk about how easy the studs at 122 have it compared to when they were at 101. They often commented on how easy the 122 studs have it. I couldn't believe it. When I first showed up to be an IP I thought there was too great a divide and the 'fighter spirit' tomcat guys were telling me that these studs have it too easy. I don't know when you were at 101, but your experience does certainly not match what my peers experienced.

 

[A4sForever]

..... There was no ready room divide, studs could and did sit at the same table as the instructors. We had several meals out with instructors on det.....

What you "guys" need is "something" .... perhaps a "real" shooting, mutha-loving Navy air war to get your minds right (??) .... for example:

When I went through one RAG ... there WAS a real, mutha-loving Navy air war going on ... some guys -- former RAG STUDs and Instructors -- that recently went "over" didn't come back had a definite influence in the "camaraderie" in evidence @ the RAG .... the "returned" RAG Instructors were ALL recently back from the hard, "real" world and they had nothing to "prove" to anyone ... they just had things to pass down to the RAG STUDs so the RAG STUDs could continue to fly and live and breathe as a result of that recently acquired "Instructor" experience ...

... the RAG STUDs soaked it all up as well and rapidly as they could ... as they "knew" it might save their lives in the very near future.

It's amazing how that simple truth helps cut through the fog and crap and "attitudes" that seem to be in play here .... no "divides" btwn Instructors and STUDs ... just lessons learned and lessons to be learned .....

 

[larbear]

I've heard several stories of the SH RAG (122) treating their studs like shit, even the CAT II and IV guys.

Brett

Are you sure you don't mean 106?? It's one thing to look, smell and fly like shit, but being treated like shit is totally not cool. I got my "stud needs to be shat on" X's out of the way at Vance, thank you. Although, I seem to have lost my certificate.

 

[HeyJoe]

Between Brett's and Heyjoes posts I have to laugh,

My FRS experience at 106 as a stud... Real good IPs. Not a single dick in the whole squadron. There was no ready room divide, studs could and did sit at the same table as the instructors. We had several meals out with instructors on det.

My FRS experience at 122 as an IP. The studs have their own little corner and don't really socialize with Instructors. We never go out to eat together on det. All, and I repeat ALL, of the former tomcat guys that instructed with me talk about how easy the studs at 122 have it compared to when they were at 101. They often commented on how easy the 122 studs have it. I couldn't believe it. When I first showed up to be an IP I thought there was too great a divide and the 'fighter spirit' tomcat guys were telling me that these studs have it too easy. I don't know when you were at 101, but your experience does certainly not match what my peers experienced.

Yours is a snapshot in time whereas mine spans decades. Doesn't mean either is erroneous, but both need to be merged to paint the total picture. My first time through 101, we all went to CO's house on regular basis in Chick's Beach. Instructors, Students alike. And everyone mingled at the club for decades. The patching tradition came much later and was great handoff to the squadrons. There was no divide like you paint, but doesn't measn it didn't occur under another regime.

 

[Brett327]

Are you sure you don't mean 106?? It's one thing to look, smell and fly like shit, but being treated like shit is totally not cool. I got my "stud needs to be shat on" X's out of the way at Vance, thank you. Although, I seem to have lost my certificate.

All my info comes from the observations of Prowler guys who went through the G pipeline at 122 as CAT others.

Brett

 

[MIDNJAC]

My FRS experience at 122 as an IP. The studs have their own little corner and don't really socialize with Instructors. We never go out to eat together on det. All, and I repeat ALL, of the former tomcat guys that instructed with me talk about how easy the studs at 122 have it compared to when they were at 101. They often commented on how easy the 122 studs have it. I couldn't believe it. When I first showed up to be an IP I thought there was too great a divide and the 'fighter spirit' tomcat guys were telling me that these studs have it too easy. I don't know when you were at 101, but your experience does certainly not match what my peers experienced.

I'm sure you can only imagine how I must have felt as a MIDN sitting in that very corner....hah, we were getting crap from everyone (no hard feelings though)

 

[Huggy Bear]

Yours is a snapshot in time whereas mine spans decades. Doesn't mean either is erroneous, but both need to be merged to paint the total picture. My first time through 101, we all went to CO's house on regular basis in Chick's Beach. Instructors, Students alike. And everyone mingled at the club for decades. The patching tradition came much later and was great handoff to the squadrons. There was no divide like you paint, but doesn't measn it didn't occur under another regime.

Exactly. Not an affront on the community, my peers all loved the tomcat. The RAG for them was simply a right of passage that they didn't relish. A squadron personality can easily change overnight with a new CO or a couple of other hail and farewells. We've both seen good squadrons go bad and vice versa.

 

[Huggy Bear]

All my info comes from the observations of Prowler guys who went through the G pipeline at 122 as CAT others.

Brett

Interesting. I won't get defensive because I have not heard their reasons. I personally knew most of them and was nothing but friendly (or maybe I'm the reason their experience sucked ). Are you sure that they are separating the flying from the ready room part. Once the door to the briefing room closed cat others were not treated differently than cat ones. With good reason - historically cat others have had much higher mishap rates. Like I've alluded to in previous posts, I think there is a definite student/instructor divide. Are they separating the flying from the ready room? Did the OPSO turn down their leave? Was an instructor a dick to them? Did they get a SOD? Did they not get the cross country they hoped for? They may have valid points or they may just be wanking. However, if they felt that way and didn't have the sack to tell us they shouldn't complain to their peers. I was treated like shit at SERE school, but I learned a lot.

 

[Brett327]

Interesting. I won't get defensive because I have not heard their reasons. I personally knew most of them and was nothing but friendly (or maybe I'm the reason their experience sucked ). Are you sure that they are separating the flying from the ready room part. Once the door to the briefing room closed cat others were not treated differently than cat ones. With good reason - historically cat others have had much higher mishap rates. Like I've alluded to in previous posts, I think there is a definite student/instructor divide. Are they separating the flying from the ready room? Did the OPSO turn down their leave? Was an instructor a dick to them? Did they get a SOD? Did they not get the cross country they hoped for? They may have valid points or they may just be wanking. However, if they felt that way and didn't have the sack to tell us they shouldn't complain to their peers. I was treated like shit at SERE school, but I learned a lot.

It was mostly how they saw the CAT Is being treated. Sorry I don't have any better details for you, but there definitely seems to be a cultural difference between communities in that respect.

Brett

 

[FA-18 Mousse]

Maybe I was missing something when I was a Hornet IP, but the way I saw things, every guy in the RAG had wings on their chest (re: no need to dick with them). My job, therefore, was to make them the best Hornet pilot I could and pass along the torch!

If Hornet IPs are dicking with CAT Is these days, please "knock it off" and remember what it was like to be a CAT I.

My two cents..............

 

[jmac12]

I never thought the Rag (122) instructors were being dicks, but they weren't there to be your friend either. They were there to teach you how to fight the jet. It wasn't hard to figure out who you should go to when you had questions and who you should stiff arm. As for socializing with instructors, we were drinking with instructors on our det, and there was no divide. Realistically, you are never going to be in a position where all of your peers are in the same place at the same time. Every other squadron you go to, you will be the new guy or the senior guy, or somewhere inbetween. Enjoy you time to fly and do little else with your buds, because its about to come to an abrupt end when you hit the fleet.

 

[JFoga97862]

Thanks for all the info, very helpful. IPs in my particular RAG are all very helpful and easy to deal with, which makes that part of life nice. However, coming from the TRACOM where the work tempo is about 14 hours a week to the RAG where it's more like 14 hours a day has been eye opening.

Having a ground job and working with sailors will be another first for most of us when we transition to the fleet. Learning to be effective in that role will probably be as challenging as anything we've done up to this point. Any good stories or words of wisdom on that topic would be greatly appriciated. Thanks again for the help gents.

 

[Brett327]

Thanks for all the info, very helpful. IPs in my particular RAG are all very helpful and easy to deal with, which makes that part of life nice. However, coming from the TRACOM where the work tempo is about 14 hours a week to the RAG where it's more like 14 hours a day has been eye opening.

Having a ground job and working with sailors will be another first for most of us when we transition to the fleet. Learning to be effective in that role will probably be as challenging as anything we've done up to this point. Any good stories or words of wisdom on that topic would be greatly appriciated. Thanks again for the help gents.

If you think the working hours at the RAG are tough, stand by to stand by. (smiles simulated)

Brett

 

[nittany03]

If you think the working hours at the RAG are tough, stand by to stand by. (smiles simulated)

Brett

But if we stood by, we wouldn't be working . . .