Leadership in Marine Aviation

[mattscollin]

Hello all:

This is my first post, but I have been lurking and reading up for awhile. I was wondering if any USMC pilots might be able to relay info regarding the sorts of leadership duties expected or encouraged once you are through with flight training and settled into your MOS. I want to lead other Marines, and have dreamed of flying since I was a kid, bringing up the question of the air route versus the ground route. I know you are trained as a Marine officer first, and a Naval aviator second, but do leadership opportunities continue to present themselves once you are flying regularly? If it helps, I am most interested in flying AH-1's, but would of course take anything they let me inside of.

Thanks,

Matt

 

[gaijin6423]

Speaking as a Marine SNA, sometimes it seems like it will never happen. And sometimes, it's even tougher when I talk to friends who are already on their way back from Iraq/Afghanistan and hear their stories of what they did in this or that situation. True, it's a long road to get there, but you better be ready to lead when you arrive.

As an enlisted Marine, some of the people who had the most positive influence on me were aviators. Whether it was their leadership by example, getting me to question just what I wanted out of the Marine Corps experience, or just putting foot to as$ when I did something stupid, without leadership from some of the Marine aviators out there I'd have fallen by the wayside long ago. I can't honestly say that I've known a Marine Officer, let alone a pilot, complain about a lack of leadership opportunities. Granted, leading Marines in the air wing isn't quite the same as leading an infantry platoon, but let's face it, the jobs are different.

Bottom line: If you're qualified, then no one can make the decision but you. Sounds a little like leadership to me. I will say this, though: Whatever you choose, take the ball and run with it; Don't even half-ass your job because you could have done ____. Your Marines deserve better.

Good Luck!

 

[Mayday]

There are countless leadership and "non-flying" billets out there, beginning practically right after winging. I'll let those who actually rate fill you in on the detailed list.
For starters though, there's series and company commander at recruit training, that can be filled by a 1stLt. There's a couple Lt billets at OCS, if I'm not mistaken. There's embassy officer billets, there's [ground] FAC, there's joint billets like Pentagon and NORAD, there's the recruiting field like OSO and AOP... all sorts of stuff.
And that's not to mention the endless array of collateral duties you will acrue within the squadron itself that will have enlisted Marines working with and for you: OpsO, MaintO, QAO, ASO, Acting X or C O, just to name a few.

[Edit: to explain the terminology...
Forward Air Controller (FAC) - the guy who calls in the air support while running around with the ground-pounders.
OSO - If you don't know, uh...
Assistant Officer for Procurement (AOP) - The guy who decides who gets in to OCS and who doesn't, among a zillion other things.
Flight Operations Officer (OpsO) - Flight and training scheduling, among a zillion other things.
Quality Assurance and/or Maintenance Officer - self explanatory.
Aviation Safety Officer (ASO) - Ugh, I don't even want to explain.
Acting in others' command billets during extended periods of their absence (Acting OpsO, XO, or CO, etc) - self explanatory.]

 

[KBayDog]

By being an officer, you are, by default, a leader (regardless of your actual leadership skills). It just comes with the office - not with the billet - and it is something you had better be ready for.

Enlisted Marines expect and DESERVE good leadership. With the shiny stuff on your collars - regardless of billet - they will look to you for that kind of leadership.

 

[skidkid]

Your opportunities for leadership billlets as a young LT will be fairly limited. You might if youa re very lucky get a small shop in maintenance or ground training but more than likely you will be a schedule writer, embark officer etc etc. AS you learn somethings and develop a bit there will be numerous opportunites in a squadron. Right now I have 15 Marines in my shop and leading Marines is a trmemdous challenge and responsibility.

As for non flying leadership tours the opportunities are endless. you can go to an MCRD and lead DIs and recruits ot any numebr of other places. If you have questions let me know

 

[USMCSNA]

Hello all:

This is my first post, but I have been lurking and reading up for awhile. I was wondering if any USMC pilots might be able to relay info regarding the sorts of leadership duties expected or encouraged once you are through with flight training and settled into your MOS. I want to lead other Marines, and have dreamed of flying since I was a kid, bringing up the question of the air route versus the ground route. I know you are trained as a Marine officer first, and a Naval aviator second, but do leadership opportunities continue to present themselves once you are flying regularly? If it helps, I am most interested in flying AH-1's, but would of course take anything they let me inside of.

Thanks,

Matt

Plus if you are at TBS at the right time, you might get to do Leatherneck, which puts you in charge of whether or not Midshipmen will make good Marines.

I joined the Marines to fly, and got some leadership skills along the way....Little bit different situation, with you wanting to lead and then fly, but PM me if you have any questions..I'd be happy to answer them for you.

 

[gaijin6423]

If you signed up just to fly, you're in the wrong business. Period.

And for the record: While the Leatherneck experience is a good learning experience for new 2ndLts, it's ultimately a board of more senior Marine Officers that actually decides if USNA Midshipmen will make good Marine Officers.

 

[KBayDog]

Plus if you are at TBS at the right time, you might get to do Leatherneck, which puts you in charge of whether or not Midshipmen will make good Marines.

HOLY "BLIND LEADING THE BLIND," BATMAN!!!

gaijin is right - you have nothing to do with being "in charge" of whether or not Mids make good Marines. The selection board, good training, and the character of the individual Mid will determine if s/he will make a good Marine.

 

[USMCSNA]

If you signed up just to fly, you're in the wrong business. Period.

And for the record: While the Leatherneck experience is a good learning experience for new 2ndLts, it's ultimately a board of more senior Marine


Officers that actually decides if USNA Midshipmen will make good Marine Officers.

Well apparently I'm in the right business, because I made it through at the top of my class. I'm just saying I joined to fly and learned some things that made me glad I chose the Marines along the way. We're saying the same thing here....Not everybody has wanted to be a Marine their whole life, but following OCS and TBS, you're pretty damned glad that you did so....Maybe I sounded a certain way, but I really think we are saying similar things.

 

[KBayDog]

Well apparently I'm in the right business, because I made it through at the top of my class. I'm just saying I joined to fly and learned some things that made me glad I chose the Marines along the way. We're saying the same thing here....Not everybody has wanted to be a Marine their whole life, but following OCS and TBS, you're pretty damned glad that you did so....Maybe I sounded a certain way, but I really think we are saying similar things.

Congrats on finishing at the top of your class, but what happens if you don't make it through flight training?

 

[USMCSNA]

Congrats on finishing at the top of your class, but what happens if you don't make it through flight training?

There are no bad MOSs in our corps..The chance to lead Marines is motivation enough to do any job. I'll always be a provisional rifle platoon commander.

 

[skidkid]

There are no bad MOSs in our corps..The chance to lead Marines is motivation enough to do any job. I'll always be a provisional rifle platoon commander.

Ha HaHa Ha I love the motivation that was me a few years back but the answer from deep in your soul should be I wont fail I will do whatever it takes to suceed but if something beyond my control stifles me I will do something that directly involves killing the enemy. There are in fact a few bad MOSs but thankfully there are people who take them and do well allowing those of us with cool MOSs to do our jobs.

Good luck this was not meant tobe overyl sarcastic just soem thoughts from a slightly older warrior

 

[KBayDog]

There are no bad MOSs in our corps..The chance to lead Marines is motivation enough to do any job. I'll always be a provisional rifle platoon commander.

Sounds good to me.

How come nobody caught onto my contradictory statements?

By being an officer, you are, by default, a leader (regardless of your actual leadership skills). It just comes with the office - not with the billet - and it is something you had better be ready for.

HOLY "BLIND LEADING THE BLIND," BATMAN!!!

Did we suddenly get a sense of humor, or finally understand sarcasm?

*standing by for the moderators to come on by and lock yet another thread*

 

[Mayday]

I joined the Marines to fly, and got some leadership skills along the way....

If you signed up just to fly, you're in the wrong business. Period.

Ya know, just to toss something in for the Little Man, is everybody here able to say into the mirror without blushing that they were interested in joining the Corps for only the "right" reasons? In fact, no one can, cuz they didn't even truly know what their commitment was going to mean, with the possible exception of salty former SSgts like KBayDog who'd seen enough of Marine officers and their caliber to make a good estimation.

I'm getting tired of the constant berating (sp) of young prospective servicemen/women by those who've been immersed in a life of dedication, when they've obviously forgotten their own original intentions and sugarcoated them with false memories. Why do you think the Corps is the only service with a no-sh!t contractual guarantee of being being an AV/NFO? (yeah yeah, only if one holds up his end by making it through the OCS and TBS rite of passage etc etc). Because of exactly what USMCSNA said. Kids may initially join to fly, but to make it through OCS and TBS and be exposed to the intrinsic values of the Corps yet somehow disregard them [core values] and still only care about themselves and their chances of jets and how much they'll be like Tom Cruise is a mathematical impossibility.

By my understanding, this site was founded/created to be educational/insirational/informational for military aviation enthusiasts in all stages of their careers, high school juniors and retired veterans alike.

- - off my podium now, bracing for the neg rep pts...

[EDIT]: woah! harsh tone! I posted before the whole thing turned lighthearted! finger over the delete button...[/EDIT]

 

[skidkid]

I joined becasue I didnt want to wear a tie most days. I learned the other stuff along the way.