Kobe Bryant Helo Incident

[JTS11]

...Helo guys correct me if it's different for you. But as a fixed-wing guy, my IFR decision-making calculus is decidedly slanted in favor of the latter, not the former . . .

Helo dudes definitely spring-loaded for VFR, at least from my old Marine 53E perspective. Most of the training is in the local area and obviously not at airfields, so it's not feasible if you can't go VFR.

In SD, we'd file IFR to get over the mountains to Yuma training areas, or to get to the Whiskey area for aerial refueling, if there was a marine layer. Cancelling once on top.

I think that the thought of sustained IFR flight in IMC in helos is uncomfortable for a lot of dudes (depending on airframe). Lack of weather radar, inability to climb above most wx (icing), squirrely avionics/AFCS are some of the reasons that come to mind. Other airframes may have a different perspective though...

 

[Gatordev]

I have been in the scenario where I have tried to pick up an IFR clearance to get home, but couldn't. ATC can't give you a clearance until you get to the Minimum Vectoring Altitude. But you can't get up to the MVA because that is in the clouds. Well you can't go IMC without an IFR clearance. Catch-22. Sometimes you can sweet talk the controller and guarantee obstacle clearance up to the MVA, but that is wrong and rare.

That's why you just declare the emergency and take your pain on the backside. At least he was actually up with SOCAL even if they couldn't provide services (according to the audio), so he was already talking to the person he would need to. As Jim and Sam were saying, having the time to make that decision is critical before getting boxed in, and it's easy for us to say it now, but climbing and declaring early would have been a better option.

As an aside... About 2 years ago (-ish), a 407 from my company got caught in IIMC. All of the 407s have instrument capability, so the pilot called ATC and asked for the vectors to the nearest approach and landed uneventfully. The FAA went after the pilot, not because he flew IFR in a VFR-only aircraft, but because he didn't declare the emergency first. The company protected him and talked the FAA off the ledge, but they make sure to put out in new hire that if you ever get in that situation, declare and then you start to gain some get out of jail free cards (from the FAA, at least). Hokie, I know you know that, just finishing the thought.

Having not flown for a civilian helo pax company, does the fact they only do VFR ops imply that their aircraft are not configured for IFR ops? Or is it an insurance thing, or training cost, or inability to keep pilots current?

The answer is: it depends. The S76 is an IFR capable aircraft, but as I said earlier, who knows how this particular one was configured. It's possible to have a non-IFR certified aircraft that's completely capable of flying IFR. There are other aircraft that are fully IFR capable but are a VFR-only program. There are quite a few EC-135 HAA programs like that.

If you are an IFR Part 135 program, you have to maintain instrument currency, so 6 approaches every 6 months. Easy right? Well it's not the military where we can just log what we want, and as an example, in my case, I fly a single-pilot aircraft with only one set of controls. So I can't legally fly a "simulated" approach without a safety pilot. I can't have a safety pilot because there's not a second set of controls. The only way I can legally log an approach is to shoot an actual approach (as defined by the FARs....something something about weather and the FAF...that I can never remember). Sooo, we just do an IPC every 6 months with an instructor/Check Airman (either in the sim or in the aircraft...it alternates) and then we're always current.

 

[magnetfreezer]

As an aside... About 2 years ago (-ish), a 407 from my company got caught in IIMC. All of the 407s have instrument capability, so the pilot called ATC and asked for the vectors to the nearest approach and landed uneventfully. The FAA went after the pilot, not because he flew IFR in a VFR-only aircraft, but because he didn't declare the emergency first. The company protected him and talked the FAA off the ledge, but they make sure to put out in new hire that if you ever get in that situation, declare and then you start to gain some get out of jail free cards (from the FAA, at least). Hokie, I know you know that, just finishing the thought.

Could adjusting FAR language on IIMC reduce the disincentive to ask for IFR (vs trying to fight WX to avoid an emergency/perceived violation)? Wonder if that will come out of the NTSB on this.

 

[Gatordev]

Could adjusting FAR language on IIMC reduce the disincentive to ask for IFR (vs trying to fight WX to avoid an emergency/perceived violation)? Wonder if that will come out of the NTSB on this.

That assumes a) the person is capable doing it and/or b) the aircraft is capable.

The guess (and it's just that) today at work is that this aircraft probably didn't have an autopilot based on aircraft age.

 

[bubblehead]

Can someone explain how an IFR rated pilot can succumb to spatial disorientation? I understand the concept if you have no reference to ground, however, I thought that was the whole point of getting IFR rated so that when you have no reference, you rely on your instruments.

 

[Jim123]

It's physiology, the way your brain uses your vision and your inner ear to tell you which way is "up." Either of those two senses can trick your brain, sometimes even if you've trained a lot to overcome that exact problem.

The long explanation initially covers about a day of classroom and lab during API, then recurrent training throughout a career in naval aviation.

That's the long and short of it. There are a lot of much better explanations out there, certainly better than I can wing just off the top of my head.

 

[bubblehead]

It's physiology, the way your brain uses your vision and your inner ear to tell you which way is "up." Either of those two senses can trick your brain, sometimes even if you've trained a lot to overcome that exact problem.

The long explanation initially covers about a day of classroom and lab during API, then recurrent training throughout a career in naval aviation.

That's the long and short of it. There are a lot of much better explanations out there, certainly better than I can wing just off the top of my head.

Thanks. I get what causes it as I've experienced something similar when I was a diver (trust your bubbles and your gauge).

I don't get how an IFR rated pilot can succumb to it in light of being instrument rated/certified/experienced as I thought that was the whole point of getting IFR rated/certified/experienced.

 

[PhrogLoop]

I get what causes it...I don't get how an IFR rated pilot can succumb to it...

human factors is a thing!

 

[Austin-Powers]

You like to rape women and get away with it because you have money and status too?

?

 

[jollygreen07]

Can someone explain how an IFR rated pilot can succumb to spatial disorientation? I understand the concept if you have no reference to ground, however, I thought that was the whole point of getting IFR rated so that when you have no reference, you rely on your instruments.

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Jim summed it up pretty well. I always brief my students that spatial-D doesn’t care about rank, flying time, age, etc. You can overcome it by focusing on your instruments and ignoring what your body is telling you, but it can be VERY disorienting. The worst I had it was during formation flight through the weather. I felt like I was in a 90 degree AOB turn, when we were straight and level. Not fun.

 

[PhrogLoop]

...VERY disorienting. The worst I had it was during formation flight through the weather. I felt like I was in a 90 degree AOB turn, when we were straight and level. Not fun.

Yep. Happened to me too during night VERTREP (I know, I know). I took the controls from the right seat after the drop, turned left away from the ship into a black moonless non-horizon, scanned for cues (none to be found), overbanked, and recovered the aircraft at 65 feet AGL. I’ll never forget that tiny tick mark halfway between 60 and 70 feet on the RADALT.

 

[FrankTheTank]

Can someone explain how an IFR rated pilot can succumb to spatial disorientation? I understand the concept if you have no reference to ground, however, I thought that was the whole point of getting IFR rated so that when you have no reference, you rely on your instruments.

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I’ve got thousands of hours and am a current airline Captain.. and rarely, but every few years I get Vertigo (sorry, I’m old school, still call it that, but I get the Spacial D argument). Last time it happened, I hadn‘t flown in a while, low vis takeoff into 400 foot ceiling following by immediate turn. Oh and lots of greens, yellows, and reds on the radar which was distracting. Yes, you trust your instruments but it takes experience and currency to fight the urge.

 

[Sam I am]

Thanks. I get what causes it as I've experienced something similar when I was a diver (trust your bubbles and your gauge).

I don't get how an IFR rated pilot can succumb to it in light of being instrument rated/certified/experienced as I thought that was the whole point of getting IFR rated/certified/experienced.

It comes down to believing your instruments...a crisis of faith if you will. The worst feeling in the world is the leans in the goo. I always briefed that getting disoriented, the leans, vertigo or whatever you want to call it is not a character flaw so don't keep it a secret. Step one is confessing to yourself, step two is confessing to your crew. I also found passing the controls would eliminate the threat so to speak, but wouldn't correct the condition. Almost always, once the SNA or other pilot said they were okay and received the controls they were AFU all over again. With SNA's or IP's under the hood, I would ride along, pull the hood to let them recage internally, sometimes both if it was bad enough. If we were actual IMC, then I'd take em back and repeat until corrected. Sometimes would take bit...

For the MP, he didn't have any back up, he had to come to grips with it himself, he likely knew how difficult his scenario really was, and when it started to unravel he was on his own.

 

[Pags]

Can someone explain how an IFR rated pilot can succumb to spatial disorientation? I understand the concept if you have no reference to ground, however, I thought that was the whole point of getting IFR rated so that when you have no reference, you rely on your instruments.

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So in the case of this crash, even if the pilot was IFR rated, he was flying VFR, by which I mean, navigating by looking outside. As others have pointed out, the transition from looking outside to gauges isn't seamless even under planned or expected transitions. Thats why if you're going to fly on instruments it's easier to do so from the start such as Jim was saying about taking off from the ship. Transitionining between looking outside and the gauges is hard. That's why night landings at the boat are hard and why night form is hard.

Basically, what can happen during the transition from outside to inside is that your brain expects to see the gauges in a certain configuration. If what is on the gauges doesn't match with what your brain and body think is happening your brain basically barfs and screws up. Sometimes this can be realized physically such as vertigo and other times the brain will want to correct to perceived false position and then you put in the wrong inputs. Or maybe you misread the gauges and try and put in the wrong inputs and your already stressed brain can't figure it out before you crash. Or maybe during the transition to gauges your scan isn't fast enough and you miss things. Your wings and nose are level but you haven't arrested a rate of descent or corrected your airspeed. IFR training provides the basics of this stuff but if you don't practice a scan it slows down. So even if you were qualified you could still screw it up because you're not proficient. Now add in the aircraft to the equation. Some airplanes have all sorts of magic that make them easier to control. Others have varying degrees of magic that make them less easy to control which means that it's easier for a bad situation to build up. An aircraft with lots of magic may make up for a bad scan by controlling certain aspects. An aircraft with less magic requires a more aggressive scan and brain work to keep it where you want it.

 

[Pags]

And if you're close to the ground this can all happen in seconds. And if your brain is already a second or so behind you may not realize your predicament until you hit the ground.