Just wondering

[Taz24th]

I know this will catch flak for me not being anywhere near the primary phase but here goes. I was looking at the Gerber gouge page today and each fam page has not only the discuss items (which seems to be right off of the Primary SNA Training Cirriculum Pub), but also has the demonstrated, introduced, and practiced items as well. Where can these additional items for each flight be found? In the ATFs filled out for the flight, or was that info just drawn from his experience on that particular hop? Not looking to start prepping for primary this early, just a FMI question guys.

 

[jamnww]

Each flight has a corresponding kneeboard sheet which will have all of these items listed on it, however these sheets are largely drawn from the MPTS and squadron preferences if the MPTS has a range of flights when things should be demo'd...

 

[usnphoenix]

Jamnww is right. The MPTS is pretty key when you are trying to prepare for each FAM. While you need to read up and prepare for these maneuvers ahead of time, you won't be expected to perform them until they are demonstrated.

 

[Taz24th]

Thanks for the info. The squadron I flew with for my last cruise as a Mid, VFA-122 Flying Eagles, used the kneeboard sheet format as well. I will definitely reference that for flight prepping, when that time comes of course. I also heard something from byran weatherup's gouge site stating it is a good idea (or was it a requirement) to know all of the manuevers for the required training block before comencing even the first event of the training block. Thanks again, and good luck to you guys throughout flight training.

-Taz24th

 

[pilotvmi]

What I did in primary was I wrote out all of the briefing items for an entire block of flights. For example I took a day and did all the briefing items for fams. That way the majority of my time the night before a flight was dedicated to chairflying and studying the maneuvers and emergency procedures. I only had to review the briefing items. It helped a lot. And its a good feeling when you get done with a late flight and you already have your brief for the next flight pretty much covered.

 

[jamnww]

What I did in primary was I wrote out all of the briefing items for an entire block of flights. For example I took a day and did all the briefing items for fams. That way the majority of my time the night before a flight was dedicated to chairflying and studying the maneuvers and emergency procedures. I only had to review the briefing items. It helped a lot. And its a good feeling when you get done with a late flight and you already have your brief for the next flight pretty much covered.

Dead on, I have heard of many SNAs getting tripped up on flights because they had a late flight and then an early one the next day. Always good to prep ahead when possible.

 

[Gatordev]

Is the Gerber gouge even current anymore? That was around when I was a stud. It was MPTS back then, but a bit different.

 

[Chubby]

Is the Gerber gouge even current anymore? That was around when I was a stud. It was MPTS back then, but a bit different.

Not really anymore ... brimble.com has some current stuff in the works. It's not all there but it follows the new flow and is a little better than the old bastions.

 

[jamnww]

Concerning ALL gouge...its always best to look the stuff up yourself to confirm it because there are LOTS of mistakes, even on brimble...

That and they just put out a new NATOPS this year for it...

 

[Chubby]

Concerning ALL gouge...its always best to look the stuff up yourself to confirm it because there are LOTS of mistakes, even on brimble...

That and they just put out a new NATOPS this year for it...

Thus the age old adage ... "Live by the gouge, die by the gouge"

 

[Taz24th]

There is a new NATOPS out for the T-34C? I currently have the 1 FEBRUARY 2000 edition from t34.com. I personally will try not to use any gouge, but make my own study material. I have heard too many stories about people failing an event/test because they got bad or out-of-date gouge. I'm planning on making studyguides using the pub ELO's and section study questions, printing out the event kneeboard cards to chairfly maneuvers ahead of time, and stay 2-3 flight ahead to spell my own success. I'm not going to trust my flight career to someone elses gouge (this statement is open for debate, but it's just my personal opinion). The Contact pub says that you should prepare for each flight as if your professsional reputation depends on it, and this is the mindset that I will go into every flight with.
I do not know about brimble.com, but I have found what appears to be updated gouge for OCS,API, PRIMARY/INTERMEDIATE, ADVANCED HELO, and SH-60 FRS/RAG from bryanweatherup.com. Bryan went through training from 2002-2004, so it seems to be pretty current. He breaks down each blocks maneuvers, but stops with gouge around RIs becuase the EP's and maneuvers should be down pad by then. After that he basically give tips on preparing for blocks, and organizing your study material for future phases of training. Thanks again for all yall advice on the subject.

-Taz24th

 

[jamnww]

There is a new NATOPS out for the T-34C? I currently have the 1 FEBRUARY 2000 edition from t34.com. I personally will try not to use any gouge, but make my own study material. I have heard too many stories about people failing an event/test because they got bad or out-of-date gouge. I'm planning on making studyguides using the pub ELO's and section study questions, printing out the event kneeboard cards to chairfly maneuvers ahead of time, and stay 2-3 flight ahead to spell my own success. I'm not going to trust my flight career to someone elses gouge (this statement is open for debate, but it's just my personal opinion). The Contact pub says that you should prepare for each flight as if your professsional reputation depends on it, and this is the mindset that I will go into every flight with.
I do not know about brimble.com, but I have found what appears to be updated gouge for OCS,API, PRIMARY/INTERMEDIATE, ADVANCED HELO, and SH-60 FRS/RAG from bryanweatherup.com. Bryan went through training from 2002-2004, so it seems to be pretty current. He breaks down each blocks maneuvers, but stops with gouge around RIs becuase the EP's and maneuvers should be down pad by then. After that he basically give tips on preparing for blocks, and organizing your study material for future phases of training. Thanks again for all yall advice on the subject.

-Taz24th

New NATOPS - July 2005 (delivered to the Squadrons Jan 2006)
You will get a lot of gouge from others as you go through the training process, people in your squadron that will help out alot. As for making your own study sheets and material, well that is one line of thought however somethings (techniques) you will only be able to obtain through talking to others and your instructors. The ELOs are fine for tests (API, ground school) but are not very effective for flight planning, for that you will have to find your own method and get the current information from those in your squadron. As for staying 2-3 flights ahead...many have said that, almost no one is actually capable of doing it due to the flow of events, also dividing your attention from what you are working on now to what you will need the following blocks is not a good idea. Don't get behind, maybe try to stay one flight ahead, beyond that its really not necessary.

If you plan for each flight to be the basis of your professional reputation then you are going to drive yourself crazy, you will have bad days, you will screw things up from time to time...just focus on learning the material as fast as you will need to keep a step ahead and try to think through contengencies (you will find this out later).

As for Bryan Weatherup...a lot has changed since 2002 so don't rely on it...always double check the gouge before using it. Till then don't worry about it and enjoy life...Primary will get here before you know it and there is no need to start focusing on that now...

 

[Fly Navy]

I personally will try not to use any gouge, but make my own study material.

Dude, work smarter, not harder. If you know the gouge is good, use it.

I have heard too many stories about people failing an event/test because they got bad or out-of-date gouge.

That's because they were morons and didn't do their own legwork. If you fail a test because of gouge, you didn't know the material in the first place. You didn't fail it because of gouge, you failed it because you didn't do your part of actually knowing the sh!t.

 

[zippy]

Weatherup is still fairly descent for Corpus- once you get used to searching for the maneuvers out of sequence with MPTS... I really liked the limit sheets he put out- nearly every question i was ever asked had an answer on that sheet. Other then the Oil pressure- I thought it was pretty current. That might of changed with the new NATOPS though.

Taz... you say your not going to use any gouge- good luck. There are going to be times where you've searched high and low for the answer to something, or are going to be flying with an instructor you know nothing about and you are either going to have the option of going in without the knowledge or calling someone a few flights ahead of you and asking them.

It seems like it would be pretty tough trying survive and do well on your own in this program without the knowledge and help of your peers and people who have gone through before you...

 

[Taz24th]

Roger that yall, and I'm not saying I wont try to use gouge entirely, but just to not rely on it totally and not knowing my **** down cold first. But hey that's far off for me, I'm still waiting to comission in May and get orders to IFS . I'm looking too far ahead and shouldn't be making the comments I'm making without being there first. Definitely not worrying too much about primary right now, and enjoying my time her at college and with my girl (soon to be fiancee). Getting gouge on the instructor your flying with sounds like a good idea, I will surely do that when the time comes. But for now I'm gonna just take everything you guys say to heart and worry about all that stuff when it's my turn in primary. Also I'm not a loner/nerd:icon_cool, and will definitely utilize group study and practice...lol. I though that John Wickman had a good idea about sharing the sim time to practice EPs with a buddy, testing each other over the procedures.
On a final note the reputation comment probably just comes from my work ethic, and yes it has driven me crazy before in school while studying for tests. The work hard, play hard concept I guess. More or less its a fear of failure for me, or not doing the best that I can <i.e- character flaw that I am working hard to change>. Also being an aircraft mechanic the philosophy is that if we do not do our job correctly (knowledge, performance & professionalism), then people die. I just figure that goes the same for flying a military aircraft as well. Thanks again for yalls insight and I apologize if I made an ass of myself. Hope to see yall in the fleet soon enough.

That humble, yet loud mouth mid:icon_tong
-Taz24th