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Is this a common feeling

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
Timing is everything. It's just whichever side of the wave you're on, whatever wave that happens to be.

Since OP joined the service about two years ago and is probably in his early-mid twenties, his former peers who went straight to a civilian professional pilot career probably got caught up in covid stagnation and I doubt many of them are working for big cargo or a major. Some of the ones who are a few years older might be at a LCC/ULCC where the pay and quality of life are typically pretty decent (or fairly senior at a regional, which is also a decent place to be for pay and QOL). Some of those straight civilian pilots have some magnificent debts and have to live pretty austerely to get to this point (not all of them went to an aviation college on mommy and daddy's money).

It could be ten years ago (housing bubble and recession), or twenty years ago (dot com bubble and 9/11), or thirty years ago (post-Cold War peace dividend era), or....

I get it though, if most of the last two years were dealing with HPCON, ROM, the base figuring out if you "need" to wear a mask to go for a run on base (or if the running trails are closed for "safety"), clicking through mind-numbing GMT and being told by middle management officers that GMT has improved a lot in just the last few years, incessant stand downs for everything, witnessing what a circus DoD aviation supply/logistics/support has become. Yeah, if I'd signed up to fly in the world's greatest fighting force then I'd feel uninspired and disillusioned these days too.

Each path has its ups and downs. Personally, my fortunes on the outside this past year straddled the middle ground. I know plenty of people who have it pretty great (as @Python1287 and @RedFive described) and plenty who were barely hanging on (as @zippy described). My military career was more ups than downs, plenty of stuff to be frustrated about in twenty years there, still I know plenty of people who got worse deals than I did.


Other responses have already covered work hard/get your quals and that's always sound advice.

My only other advice to @poseidon69$$$ is to look down the chain of command and do your best to make life better for your folks. Make sure they have a sense of purpose, that they know their work is meaningful and appreciated, and that they have someone looking out for them with the horsepower (rank) to help overcome the obstacles to them doing their jobs that they're not able to overcome at their level.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
Yeah, but who do you call when you're in jail at 2am in Tijuana?
Anton would be happy to come pick you up.

2Jjm.gif
 

RedFive

Well-Known Member
pilot
None
Contributor
Yeah, but who do you call when you're in jail at 2am in Tijuana?
Quien? Mi prometida Mexicana caliente. Ella dirige una bodega en Valle de Guadalupe. Ella me rescatara de los puercos en cualquier momento!
 
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nodropinufaka

Well-Known Member
COVID ruined a huge chunk of your experience so far. There are plenty of shit leaders in the military no question, but don’t fool yourself into thinking that’s better anywhere else.
Well the difference is- anywhere else you can immediately start looking elsewhere for work and move laterally or promote if you’re unhappy.

In the Navy you’re just stuck.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Well the difference is- anywhere else you can immediately start looking elsewhere for work and move laterally or promote if you’re unhappy.

In the Navy you’re just stuck.
This post makes zero sense. The "difference" is that you can choose to be unemployed. What does "move laterally or promote" mean to someone who is unemployed?
 

kite

Beach FEX
The freedom levels are absolutely in different universes.

As someone looking into pursuing naval aviation, this is one of my biggest concerns. I know that if I don't pursue this path I'll likely regret it, but when I compare it to my other potential career path (engineering, usually defense contracting), the commitment and lack of freedom, even to quit and change jobs is something that I know might be challenging for me. I've always worked jobs where there was a healthy work life balance, in areas that I know I enjoy living in, where I would constantly be utilizing weekends and flexible/alternative work schedules for frequent trips around the country. Comparing that to a career where you don't even have the option to quit for 8+ years, likely to be living in a part of the country that I would never live in by choice, limited to a liberty radius during the time that I do get off, and the frequent moves is enough to give me pause.
 

Python

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
As someone looking into pursuing naval aviation, this is one of my biggest concerns. I know that if I don't pursue this path I'll likely regret it, but when I compare it to my other potential career path (engineering, usually defense contracting), the commitment and lack of freedom, even to quit and change jobs is something that I know might be challenging for me. I've always worked jobs where there was a healthy work life balance, in areas that I know I enjoy living in, where I would constantly be utilizing weekends and flexible/alternative work schedules for frequent trips around the country. Comparing that to a career where you don't even have the option to quit for 8+ years, likely to be living in a part of the country that I would never live in by choice, limited to a liberty radius during the time that I do get off, and the frequent moves is enough to give me pause.

Do not mistake my post to believe that you’re a total prisoner in the military. On the contrary, it was to highlight the very high freedom you get in the airlines, relative to any career. You are restricted to a liberty radius that you can leave if you put in for leave. Yes there is a commitment, but it is a commitment to doing something very cool.

While my QOL increased by leaving and going to the airlines, that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t do it again. I had only one chance in my life to fly Navy jets, so I took it. I got to live the dream, and then move on to high QOL of the airlines. Best of both worlds. But don’t think that my post was to mean that naval aviation puts you in handcuffs for ten years.
 

Mirage

Well-Known Member
pilot
This post makes zero sense. The "difference" is that you can choose to be unemployed. What does "move laterally or promote" mean to someone who is unemployed?
Re-read his post. He's saying you can look for other companies you'd rather work for (while keeping your original job in the mean time), move laterally (ie ask your employer for a different job you'd prefer), or work to promote to a job you'd prefer. None of these involve being unemployed.

I'd also add that in the Navy you cannot stay in your current position, even if that is what you'd prefer. This is a big frustration for many military pilots who just want to fly, but get forced into staff jobs repeatedly throughout their careers.

All things to consider, and all the things people have mentioned here are partially why I'm getting out. But, I'd still do it again despite all that.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Re-read his post. He's saying you can look for other companies you'd rather work for (while keeping your original job in the mean time), move laterally (ie ask your employer for a different job you'd prefer), or work to promote to a job you'd prefer. None of these involve being unemployed.

I'd also add that in the Navy you cannot stay in your current position, even if that is what you'd prefer. This is a big frustration for many military pilots who just want to fly, but get forced into staff jobs repeatedly throughout their careers.

All things to consider, and all the things people have mentioned here are partially why I'm getting out. But, I'd still do it again despite all that.
No, I get what he’s saying. It’s the presumption that any individual has the freedom to do those things that doesn’t make sense. Most people don’t just wake up one day and proclaim that they’ll somehow switch into a better paying or more satisfying job. Life doesn’t work that way for most folks.
 

robav8r

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
No, I get what he’s saying. It’s the presumption that any individual has the freedom to do those things that doesn’t make sense. Most people don’t just wake up one day and proclaim that they’ll somehow switch into a better paying or more satisfying job. Life doesn’t work that way for most folks.
Brett, you're still in the Navy with no civilian work experience . . . yet. People routinely move laterally within their organization. I have a great job and am well compensated for what I do. My PM regularly advertises other positions within our company that might be of interest to several of us, despite the fact in may create a short term hole in my companies manning plan. Keeping employees happy and making sure they stay within the boundaries of the company is the goal. Also, the ability to flow into either a GS or contractor position, supporting a DoD or USG agency is commonplace. Many, many companies are screaming for talent right now, there are jobs a plenty if you're hungry enough.
 

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
I know that if I don't pursue this path I'll likely regret it...
Then your decision should be made, and it's time to stop worrying about being able to make opening day at the ski resort because unlike your civilian buddies, you'll be manning up for a launch into the foreboding goo.

Few things suck more than regretting you didn't try something you wished you had.

Google on "jousting with sam and charlie" and read the essay. If it makes you want to fly navy, you'll hate yourself if you don't try. If it doesn't, go get that civilian job.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Brett, you're still in the Navy with no civilian work experience . . . yet. People routinely move laterally within their organization. I have a great job and am well compensated for what I do. My PM regularly advertises other positions within our company that might be of interest to several of us, despite the fact in may create a short term hole in my companies manning plan. Keeping employees happy and making sure they stay within the boundaries of the company is the goal. Also, the ability to flow into either a GS or contractor position, supporting a DoD or USG agency is commonplace. Many, many companies are screaming for talent right now, there are jobs a plenty if you're hungry enough.
That’s great, for you... but probably a luxury most people in the workforce do not have.
 

robav8r

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
That’s great, for you... but probably a luxury most people in the workforce do not have.
You’re being obstinate for no reason. Read my post again. In large, metropolitan areas particularly, moving laterally within a company or an industry is fairly easy, and commonplace, especially in places like DC.
 
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