Investing in shooting rounds quickly (MG thread)

[Gatordev]

So here's a question that could probably be asked on many different forums, but I figured I'd pose it here...

While on leave during Xmas, my dad and I were talking a little bit about investment and long-term payoffs. I mentioned that I had kicked around the idea (mental masturbation, mostly) of buying a machine gun as an investment. I'm not talking a MAC-10 or even a Sten, but something that would probably hold it's value, if not increase, like a M-16 or even a M1A1. Obviously it's big payout initially, but over time, so is your retirement savings.

So assuming you live in a friendly state and have the means to acquire one, anyone have any thoughts on this idea?

I may split the thread if people actually respond...

 

[LFDtoUSMC]

So here's a question that could probably be asked on many different forums, but I figured I'd pose it here...

While on leave during Xmas, my dad and I were talking a little bit about investment and long-term payoffs. I mentioned that I had kicked around the idea (mental masturbation, mostly) of buying a machine gun as an investment. I'm not talking a MAC-10 or even a Sten, but something that would probably hold it's value, if not increase, like a M-16 or even a M1A1. Obviously it's big payout initially, but over time, so is your retirement savings.

So assuming you live in a friendly state and have the means to acquire one, anyone have any thoughts on this idea?

I may split the thread if people actually respond...

My brother and I went down this path last year. He in SC and I in VA. We went the trust route. Find a good pro-gun lawyer that will help you draw up a trust. Check out www.subguns.com

If you want more info shoot me a PM.

 

[scoolbubba]

Can you hit the high points of the trust ownership route?

 

[LFDtoUSMC]

Can you hit the high points of the trust ownership route?

This is a good place to start. Easier to let you read it than try to explain it and F it away.

http://blog.princelaw.com/category/firearms-law/gun-trusts/

Also check out AR15.com. They have an entire sub-section devoted to NFA/Class 3 stuff under their Armory board.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/b/6_Armory.html

Also Gaijin started a thread about this a while ago.
http://www.airwarriors.com/community/index.php?threads/nfa-sexy-gun-stuff-cans-sbrs-aows.35883/

 

[revan1013]

Gatordev, in FL there is a class-3 license (or something that sounds like that) that allows you to buy automatic weapons. I could ask my grandfather about it, if you'd like the info. He is NRA and a former pawn shop guy who had a lot of friends that liked to blow stuff up on their private properties in the 'Glades.

 

[Gatordev]

My brother and I went down this path last year. He in SC and I in VA. We went the trust route. Find a good pro-gun lawyer that will help you draw up a trust. Check out www.subguns.com

If you want more info shoot me a PM.

I actually already have a Trust and a NFA item. I was talking more about the reality of it being an investment or not.

Wow, that site is hard to read. So did you actually go the route of a Machine Gun or a non-MG NFA item?

Gatordev, in FL there is a class-3 license (or something that sounds like that) that allows you to buy automatic weapons. I could ask my grandfather about it, if you'd like the info. He is NRA and a former pawn shop guy who had a lot of friends that liked to blow stuff up on their private properties in the 'Glades.​

I'd be interested to hear his take. The guy that runs the range that I go to in Jax is one, as well. Next time I'm home, I'll have to get his take, too.

Oh, and I'm sure I can kill some hours on Google too.

Can you hit the high points of the trust ownership route?​

m4carbine.net has a lot of good resources, as well. That's where I started and got a lot of the info. You'll find there's some conflicting info for a few sections of the Form 1/4 when you fill it out, but there's lots of good resources.

Trusts tend to be pricey to have set up (you're paying a lawyer, afterall). Also, a LOT of people go through guntrustlawyer.com and he happens to also be in Jax.

 

[LFDtoUSMC]

Gatordev,

Understood, I just assumed you were new to the realm of NFA.

We purchased an M-11. We figured it would be the smartest first purchase considering our lack of disposable income. Later down the road we look to make additional purchases. Yes, it’s fun. Got another bolt and upper for a .22 conversion kit to keep costs down (a little).

As far as for strictly investment purposes; I think that anything that goes bang is a good investment. (I think firearms are a great liquid asset if you ever need money quick, and for the most part you can get at least what you have invested) Especially those that cannot be produced for us lowly serfs anymore.

Check out http://jamesdjulia.com/firearms.asp in the coming weeks. They have an upcoming auction and their NFA products always bring good prices.

And yes, subguns takes while to get used to.

 

[Deere1450]

How can investing in a machine gun build more wealth (or any) than a well diversified portfolio? That seems like pure speculation to me...Am I missing something?

 

[eas7888]

How can investing in a machine gun build more wealth (or any) than a well diversified portfolio? That seems like pure speculation to me...Am I missing something?

Well, regardless of whether or not it can build more wealth, it sure as hell is a lot more fun to watch appreciate in value than your IRA.

 

[insanebikerboy]

How can investing in a machine gun build more wealth (or any) than a well diversified portfolio? That seems like pure speculation to me...Am I missing something?

You could call it diversification I suppose. The full-auto sears for M-16's can run $10,000 plus, and as they wear out the prices will only go up, and quickly.

 

[Deere1450]

Well, regardless of whether or not it can build more wealth, it sure as hell is a lot more fun to watch appreciate in value than your IRA.

Damn good point. Hell, you could even charge people to shoot it! (is that legal?)

 

[Gatordev]

How can investing in a machine gun build more wealth (or any) than a well diversified portfolio? That seems like pure speculation to me...Am I missing something?

I don't think anyone is saying it's an either/or prospect. I pay myself first (TSP, IRA, savings), but if I or someone else had disposable income to make the initial purchase and it continued to hold it's value, the question is whether it's worth "investing" in and have it earn even more value...all while occassionally having a little fun.

I have no idea if these numbers are a fair indication of a good investment, but a M1A1 Thompson was made for ~$200 (maybe it was $400...can't remember, but regardless). I've read online that equals about $8000 in today's dollars (again, this is what I'm reading, haven't done the math or saying it's true). There's a beautiful M1A1 on Gunbroker going for $17K right now. Market value appears to be around $17K-$21K. That's a pretty good payoff if you got in early enough and/or the value continues to go up (again, if that's really true). Keep in mind, they don't make machine guns anymore that the public can buy (unless you're a dealer, and even then, it's getting harder).

@ahelwig5,

Thanks. I'll poke around. Again, this was mostly mental masturbation and something fun to look up on the interwebs, so this isn't something that would happen tomorrow, but you do hear valuable guns continue to increase in value. Besides, isn't that what Rich Wyatt keeps telling me on American Guns?

 

[Deere1450]

You could call it diversification I suppose. The full-auto sears for M-16's can run $10,000 plus, and as they wear out the prices will only go up, and quickly.

Maybe, but you figure 10 years at a real rate of 7% or so...thats 20g's right there for arguably less risk. But as eas7888 said, you might max your utility with the MG

 

[Deere1450]

I don't think anyone is saying it's an either/or prospect. I pay myself first (TSP, IRA, savings), but if I or someone else had disposable income to make the initial purchase and it continued to hold it's value, the question is whether it's worth "investing" in and have it earn even more value...all while occassionally having a little fun.

I have no idea if these numbers are a fair indication of a good investment, but a M1A1 Thompson was made for ~$200 (maybe it was $400...can't remember, but regardless). I've read online that equals about $8000 in today's dollars (again, this is what I'm reading, haven't done the math or saying it's true). There's a beautiful M1A1 on Gunbroker going for $17K right now. Market value appears to be around $17K-$21K. That's a pretty good payoff if you got in early enough and/or the value continues to go up (again, if that's really true). Keep in mind, they don't make machine guns anymore that the public can buy (unless you're a dealer, and even then, it's getting harder).

@ahelwig5,

Thanks. I'll poke around. Again, this was mostly mental masturbation and something fun to look up on the interwebs, so this isn't something that would happen tomorrow, but you do hear valuable guns continue to increase in value. Besides, isn't that what Rich Wyatt keeps telling me on American Guns?

From just a pure investment decision, I suppose it just seems risky compared to the alternatives...A fun hobby, nonetheless. Thanks for the response, Sir.

 

[statesman]

Gatordev, in FL there is a class-3 license (or something that sounds like that) that allows you to buy automatic weapons. I could ask my grandfather about it, if you'd like the info. He is NRA and a former pawn shop guy who had a lot of friends that liked to blow stuff up on their private properties in the 'Glades.

class 3 licensing is federal and is not required for personal ownership of class 3 weapons / accessories.