Interesting OP-ED Piece on SECEF Speech

[cfam]

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/2010/10/30/1324180/the-one-great-speech-of-2010.html

Stumbled across this on Neptunus Lex. Definitely not the typical speech given at Duke. I think it probably fell on deaf ears though.

Link to UNC Student Newspaper's article about the speech: http://www.dailytarheel.com/index.p...duke_encourages_students_to_earn_your_freedom

Edit: Found a video of the entire speech: http://ondemand.duke.edu/video/23687/us-secretary-of-defense-robert

 

[phrogdriver]

In a lot of ways we are movings towards being a mercenary force, paid by society to do its dirty work.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Well said, couldn't agree more.

 

[Pugs]

In a lot of ways we are movings towards being a mercenary force, paid by society to do its dirty work.

Send in my legions. Good speech.

 

[Deez]

Nice find. The more I hear Secretary Gates speak the more I like the guy.

 

[eas7888]

In a lot of ways we are movings towards being a mercenary force, paid by society to do its dirty work.

From the Geneva Conventions:
Art 47. Mercenaries

1. A mercenary shall not have the right to be a combatant or a prisoner of war.

2. A mercenary is any person who:

(a) is specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
(b) does, in fact, take a direct part in the hostilities;
(c) is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party;
(d) is neither a national of a Party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a Party to the conflict;
(e) is not a member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict; and
(f) has not been sent by a State which is not a Party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces.

I don't believe I fit any of the criteria above. Though, I understand what you're saying. Servicemen and women really do get stuck doing society's dirty work. The primary difference between us and the mercenaries is that we're required to act in an ethical manner with ROE etc... I would say that our conduct and professionalism sets us apart from the mercenary firms dotting the world's battlefields.

That was a wonderful article though. I'm a believer that some form of public service only serves to make you a better citizen.

 

[MIDNJAC]

From the Geneva Conventions:
Art 47. Mercenaries

1. A mercenary shall not have the right to be a combatant or a prisoner of war.

2. A mercenary is any person who:

(a) is specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
(b) does, in fact, take a direct part in the hostilities;
(c) is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party;
(d) is neither a national of a Party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a Party to the conflict;
(e) is not a member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict; and
(f) has not been sent by a State which is not a Party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces.

I don't believe I fit any of the criteria above. Though, I understand what you're saying. Servicemen and women really do get stuck doing society's dirty work. The primary difference between us and the mercenaries is that we're required to act in an ethical manner with ROE etc... I would say that our conduct and professionalism sets us apart from the mercenary firms dotting the world's battlefields.

That was a wonderful article though. I'm a believer that some form of public service only serves to make you a better citizen.

I took phrog's comment to be more oriented towards the continual privitization of everything formerly govt run......to include guys like Blackwater, Dyncorp, etc.

 

[eas7888]

I took phrog's comment to be more oriented towards the continual privitization of everything formerly govt run......to include guys like Blackwater, Dyncorp, etc.

I never claimed to be a smart man. I likely misunderstood his comment. In which case, I would whole heartedly agree. Anyone who's been to Iraq or Kuwait can attest to that. You can't throw a rock without hitting 10 contractors.

 

[Pugs]

You're soon to see a suggestion of refinement of the roles of contractors, FFRDC, UARC and such from SecDef to Congress to try and mitigate the blurring of the lines between the government and contractors. It will have to go to the HASC/SASC before it's official but seems lie it's overdue to ensure the lines are clear.

 

[Clux4]

Nice find. The more I hear Secretary Gates speak the more I like the guy.

I have always liked him. Wish he was in charge during the Iraqi war. I hope his replacement is as reasonable.

 

[phrogdriver]

I took phrog's comment to be more oriented towards the continual privitization of everything formerly govt run......to include guys like Blackwater, Dyncorp, etc.

Precisely the opposite. The military is becoming a separate entity from the rest of society, an entity better paid and compensated than most of the society it is drawn from. The rest of the country pays the extra cash in exchange for having that separate entity fight wars it doesn't want its sons and daughters to fight in.

 

[usmarinemike]

Precisely the opposite. The military is becoming a separate entity from the rest of society, an entity better paid and compensated than most of the society it is drawn from. The rest of the country pays the extra cash in exchange for having that separate entity fight wars it doesn't want its sons and daughters to fight in.

I'm usually right there with you on your opinions. Not so much here. The average household income in America is in the neighborhood of $35-40k. I'd say the typical snuffy out there on the line (2/3 of the force) is compensated just under that line, and the enlisted leadership isn't compensated too far above that line. That sort of takes care of the part about paying extra.

As far as sending the lower class to fight, I'm marginally on board with that viewpoint. Aside from the ranks being a terrific vehicle for class mobility, the service academies are still prestigious institutions to attend, and have no shortage of "above middle class" attendees. Most top universities still have ROTCs despite the steady state decline in the number of programs.

 

[Flash]

I'm usually right there with you on your opinions. Not so much here. The average household income in America is in the neighborhood of $35-40k. I'd say the typical snuffy out there on the line (2/3 of the force) is compensated just under that line, and the enlisted leadership isn't compensated too far above that line. That sort of takes care of the part about paying extra.......

Only if you look at the straight numbers in the pay table and that does not include the free medical, housing and food, all of which add up more than you realize, especially if hey have to live in the barracks like many junior enlisted. Having drawn 'equal' pay (gross) for 3 years in the civilian world my take-home pay (net) is much less than I was taking home in the military, even after getting some raises. As for the 'enlisted leadership' not making much more than that, the smart ones owned houses just as nice, if not nicer, as mine back in Whidbey. Not only that, take into account that the three other services have a higher percentage of mid-grade enlisted than the Marines, with more 'technical' rates/MOS's necessary than what you need in the USMC (no, it's not a hit against the USMC, just the reality of a infantry 'heavy' force).

Oh yeah, just to note, if one of your enlisted is on food stamps I would argue it is almost certainly because of them, not the military's pay. Have the family you can afford, not the one you think you deserve.

 

[helolumpy]

America is not at war.
DOD is at war, America is at the mall.
The vast majority of our fellow citizens are not impacted by GWOT (AKA overseas contingency operations) unless they try to board a plane and are 'inconviencinced" by TSA.
There is a gulf building between those who fight for America and the rest of the country.
Until the 'ruling elite' are impacted enough that they will send their sons and daughters to fight to defend our country; the divide between DOD and the average American citizen will continue to grow.
Whether it's the fault of the entitlement class, the media, or whatever; there is a divide developing between most Americans and the military.

The US is not moving towards mercenaries, but more towards a caste system where some citizens fight for the country while a different class of citizens get to benefit from the stabilty provided by the other class.

I saw a fact once that the Britiish royalty had a higher casaulty rate in WWII than the common folks. The U.S. is not there; we have a 'royalty' class that will not serve, yet benefit from the service provided by those who can not afford a top-flite college.

Compulsary service (i.e. the draft) may not be the answer, but every now and then the idea appeal to me....

 

[HeyJoe]

I hope his replacement is as reasonable.

Rumor has it this rising star is the odds on favorite....

Michèle Flournoy
Under Secretary of Defense for Policy