Instrument Rating Prior to Primary

[TAMR]

Searched the subject and didn't find much information. From those of you who have gone through Naval Flight Training, do you think that obtaining an instrument rating prior to Primary would help much to get me ahead of the competition and excel?

I friend of mine who just finished Advanced recommended to me that I add that onto my Private Pilot's License prior to entering flight training as it will really help me excel coming in with that knowledge and experience.... Any thoughts?

 

[Uncle Fester]

No.

If you want to get your instrument ticket and have the time and money, go for it. However - and this gets mentioned every time someone asks about private tickets and the Program - you don't need it, it's not going to guarantee you a leg up on the rest of your class, and there's a point of diminishing returns. IP's get frustrated when they have to spend time un-teaching studs' bad habits. Familiarity with insturment nav is not a bad thing to take with you, but it's hardly going to make you King Kong of the program. Enough hours to be comfortable in the air and with basic multi-tasking (i.e., aviating, navigating and communicating) is really as much as will be beneficial to you. Anything more is a dubious investment.

And I don't know if this is what you really meant, but don't get your headspace into the "ahead of the competition" idea. You're going into a program full of Type A over-acheivers, and thinking of yourself as being in competition with them isn't going to help. All it'll do is deny yourself groups study and gouge - which are the keys to success. Cooperate and graduate.

 

[TAMR]

No.

If you want to get your instrument ticket and have the time and money, go for it. However - and this gets mentioned every time someone asks about private tickets and the Program - you don't need it, it's not going to guarantee you a leg up on the rest of your class, and there's a point of diminishing returns. IP's get frustrated when they have to spend time un-teaching studs' bad habits. Familiarity with insturment nav is not a bad thing to take with you, but it's hardly going to make you King Kong of the program. Enough hours to be comfortable in the air and with basic multi-tasking (i.e., aviating, navigating and communicating) is really as much as will be beneficial to you. Anything more is a dubious investment.

And I don't know if this is what you really meant, but don't get your headspace into the "ahead of the competition" idea. You're going into a program full of Type A over-acheivers, and thinking of yourself as being in competition with them isn't going to help. All it'll do is deny yourself groups study and gouge - which are the keys to success. Cooperate and graduate.

Uncle, thanks for the information that is helpful. When I mention other competition, I am referring to my own capacity to not fall behind the curve and get last selection for which pipeline I want to go. I know this depends heavily on my performance, which is why I am inquiring about this in the first place. At this point, with about a year left before I submit my application, I want to give myself every fighting chance I have to be as successful as possible since I have the advantage of time on my side while finishing up college.

 

[Uncle Fester]

So you really meant, "ahead of the program".

I know this depends heavily on my performance, which is why I am inquiring about this in the first place.

That's fine and all, but it depends heavily on the needs of the Navy, how the rest of your class does and how the last 100 jokers through the program did, too (NSS). I'm not at all saying there's no point in trying to excel...your motivation and desire to kick the program in the ass are evident, and good on ya. If you want to get the ticket just for your own sake and it won't cause a hardship, fine. I'm saying that investing the time and money for an IFR ticket is probably not going to be of a significant help to you, which is what I think you were asking in the first place.

 

[TAMR]

I'm saying that investing the time and money for an IFR ticket is probably not going to be of a significant help to you

Exactly what I was looking for! If anyone else has any input on the subject I'm open to it all. Maybe that $5,000 (best case scenario) might be better saved as a PRK fund.

 

[pharaelga]

which is what I think you were asking in the first place.

lol he means what percent gets jets.... all of my peers seem to have this fanatical desire to go JETS.... my funnest flying has been at 1000'... I dont understand the big deal

 

[TAMR]

lol he means what percent gets jets.... all of my peers seem to have this fanatical desire to go JETS.... my funnest flying has been at 1000'... I dont understand the big deal

Dont Helo's fly IFR too?

 

[sundevil_av8r]

I agree with your friend. Everyone I know who came through flight training with prior experience were glad that they did. And frankly, they all did really well. Instrument flying can be challenging at first and for some it takes a little longer to grasp. To some people instrument flying will come naturally and the hard work they put in will pay dividends. However, there are guys that do really well in the beginning of primary and then struggle with instrument training.

I'm not saying you have to have your instrument rating to do well; and just because you have it doesn't mean you will. It is up to the individual. But if someone told me I was going to be competing in a boxing tournament I would probably go get some lessons before I stepped in the ring. If you are the type of person who is unable to learn the differences between civilian and Navy flight training or is unable to change a technique you once learned then you are going to have problems no matter where you go. I have gone through phases of training where in the five events I had five different instructors who gave me five different techniques to get to the same outcome. You have to be able to adapt, take their techniques on board, and then find what works for you. If you can't do that in any phase of training then you are going to struggle.

Regarding your last statement... what is the alligator closest to the canoe? If you need PRK to qualify for a pilot slot then I wouldn't spend that money on flight training. Take care of the eyes and then worry about getting a little experience.

 

[TAMR]

I agree with your friend. Everyone I know who came through flight training with prior experience were glad that they did. And frankly, they all did really well. Instrument flying can be challenging at first and for some it takes a little longer to grasp. To some people instrument flying will come naturally and the hard work they put in will pay dividends. However, there are guys that do really well in the beginning of primary and then struggle with instrument training.

I'm not saying you have to have your instrument rating to do well; and just because you have it doesn't mean you will. It is up to the individual. But if someone told me I was going to be competing in a boxing tournament I would probably go get some lessons before I stepped in the ring. If you are the type of person who is unable to learn the differences between civilian and Navy flight training or is unable to change a technique you once learned then you are going to have problems no matter where you go. I have gone through phases of training where in the five events I had five different instructors who gave me five different techniques to get to the same outcome. You have to be able to adapt, take their techniques on board, and then find what works for you. If you can't do that in any phase of training then you are going to struggle.

Regarding your last statement... what is the alligator closest to the canoe? If you need PRK to qualify for a pilot slot then I wouldn't spend that money on flight training. Take care of the eyes and then worry about getting a little experience.

I have my Private Pilots License with about 80 hours, so I'm no so worried about stick and rudder as much as I am flying under the hood, shooting approaches etc. I figured that maybe spending the time, effort and money to get the rating will mean less of a learning curve at Primary (I'm also assuming that you indeed learn instrument in the Primary phase and not Advanced). The PRK comment was a joke, but definitely in the back of my mind as my vision is 20/35 in my right eye :$.

 

[Uncle Fester]

I'm not saying you have to have your instrument rating to do well; and just because you have it doesn't mean you will. It is up to the individual. But if someone told me I was going to be competing in a boxing tournament I would probably go get some lessons before I stepped in the ring.

I'll see your metaphor and raise you. I want to be a muay thai kickboxer, so should I spend a year paying for lessons, learning and practicing under Marquess of Queensbury rules? Or is it better to learn the rules and techniques of my profession from scratch, rather than unlearning ingrained habits and remastering technique?

I agree with sundevil's post overall. However, I don't agree, as a general rule, that some experience is superior to no experience when it comes to the program. As he said, it depends on the person. Your main challenge in the VT's isn't beating out your classmates for Number One Shit Hot Stud. It's as you said...your challenge is to learn what the Navy wants you to learn, and fly the way your IP of the day wants you to fly, and be a safe, consistent aviator. If you've got the talent and discipline, NSS takes care of itself. If you don't, no amount of prior buzzing around in a Joe's Flight School plane on your own dime will give you a leg up.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Dont Helo's fly IFR too?

Yes, although IFR in Helicopter world means "I Follow Roads"


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[jtmedli]

I wouldn't reccomend getting your whole instrument rating. That's sort of a waste of money and time. The best thing you can do is familiarize yourself with by instrument flying by doing it on a sim with an instructor who will go through some basic instrument maneuvers and then show you how to read the IFR approach plates and shoot the approach on the sims. No need to go crazy and get the whole rating, but having a basic understanding of how to do VOR intercepts, dme arcing, and reading the approach plates will save you some time and grief down here. Think of it as the less you have to study the basics, the more time you can spend on the hard stuff and the more sleep you'll get.

 

[armada1651]

I came in with a Commercial/Instrument/Multi, and I would say the instrument was the only thing that really helped me in Primary. But my ratings were all paid for by scholarship...so it's hard to evaluate whether it was "worth it," since I didn't pay for it. If it's your money, I'd recommend spending it on travel and good beer, and let the Navy pay to teach you how to fly instruments.

 

[MAKE VAPES]

What is the cutoff for the "Accelerated" syllabus in primary (if it still exists)????? Will having the instrument rating force you into the more challenging syllabus?

 

[gotta_fly]

I used Microsoft Flight Simulator to help get a handle on instruments when I was in primary. You can read the basics online, or even download the primary instrument manual, and start learning to read the needles now for cheap. This may sound silly but it helped me immensely and allowed me to get the grades I needed without spending a million bucks. The best part is once you get your wings you can get all the ratings for almost free. Like others have said, so this if you have some spare cash and genuinely want it now, otherwise save your money. Good luck either way!

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