Individual Augmentee (IA) info & questions

[sevenhelmet]

Yeah, from my (totally unqualified bottom-feeder) point of view, it seems silly to spend vast amounts of money training somebody to do something fairly specific, and then send them to do something completely different for a different branch of service. If the IA tour pilots were at least doing something aviation-related (like this lawyer guy helping try insurgents- which makes sense in my opinion) then I might understand the importance of IA tours for Naval Aviators.

Not saying I'd try to bail if they threatened to assign me an IA, but I like to think critically about what I might be ordered to do someday- and this just seems like a waste of expensively trained personnel in a military increasingly concerned about $$$.

As an aside, how much does it cost to train the average TACAIR pilot?

 

[BigIron]

Originally Posted by boobcheese: I think people have the right to be pissed about this and we all need to be asking why there isn't more being done to match troop levels to the demands being placed on the military.

Who's "we?" Those civilians who are concerned about this issue, or those presently serving in the military?

 

[Gatordev]

Yeah, from my (totally unqualified bottom-feeder) point of view, it seems silly to spend vast amounts of money training somebody to do something fairly specific, and then send them to do something completely different for a different branch of service. If the IA tour pilots were at least doing something aviation-related (like this lawyer guy helping try insurgents- which makes sense in my opinion) then I might understand the importance of IA tours for Naval Aviators.

For many of these IAs, they are doing just that. They're grabbing guys who have (supposedly) had some training/operational experience w/ EW. And it's not just the EP-3/E-2/EA-6 dudes.

 

[Brett327]

...it seems silly to spend vast amounts of money training somebody to do something fairly specific, and then send them to do something completely different

Oh, you mean your average non-flying shore tour? By that standard, we should eliminate all shore billets that don't involve flying. I guess we'll have to say goodbye to all those NROTC and USNA slots, as well as NPS and the war colleges. While we're at it, let's sh!tcan the whole disassociated sea tour concept. While these IA tours may not be "fun" or seem "fair," they provide the enterprising officer with an opportunity to broaden their experience and increase their jointness. You may choose to object to them for a variety of reasons, but the fact that they're not flying billets is not a valid one.

Brett

 

[Brett327]

For many of these IAs, they are doing just that. They're grabbing guys who have (supposedly) had some training/operational experience w/ EW. And it's not just the EP-3/E-2/EA-6 dudes.

From what I understand, that particular requirement is going to morph away from the IA concept and become a command or JTF of its own.

Brett

 

[Bevo16]

I understand QOL issues impact retention, but all this talk of fair weather soldiering makes me want to vomit. Everyone is all gung ho to serve their country right up to the point when it becomes difficult and stops being fun. WTF? Brett

There is a significant difference between "fair weather soldiering" and taking notice when a situation has been poorly managed. When the Army is taking ship drivers and navy pilots and plugging them into ground pounding jobs, the system is broken. Spin it anyway you want, that kind of thing should never happen. The fact that our people can go and do the jobs speaks very well for our service, but the fact that the Army can not do their own work, speaks very poorly for their service (from the civilian leadership in the Pentagon, all the way down).

Just think, if this situation were reversed and the Navy had been the ones to screw up their human resource management. Right now, we would have former tank commanders and infantry officers showing up to drive our ships and run our shipboard divisions. Think for a minute how absurd that sounds. Well, the same thing is going on, and it's our guys that are being told BOHICA.

 

[Brett327]

There is a significant difference between "fair weather soldiering" and taking notice when a situation has been poorly managed. When the Army is taking ship drivers and navy pilots and plugging them into ground pounding jobs, the system is broken. Spin it anyway you want, that kind of thing should never happen. The fact that our people can go and do the jobs speaks very well for our service, but the fact that the Army can not do their own work, speaks very poorly for their service (from the civilian leadership in the Pentagon, all the way down).

Just think, if this situation were reversed and the Navy had been the ones to screw up their human resource management. Right now, we would have former tank commanders and infantry officers showing up to drive our ships and run our shipboard divisions. Think for a minute how absurd that sounds. Well, the same thing is going on, and it's our guys that are being told BOHICA.

Don't mistake my admonishment of IA complainers for an acceptance of how the Army is doing business. I agree that they are 100% fvcked up, and I hope the leadership is taking steps to correct that down the road. Nevertheless, the current state of affair is what it is, so we might as well be honest and realistic about things and not resort to hyperbole in expressing our discontent. The analogy you suggest is false. You're right to say that it would be ridiculous if the Army came over to drive our ships, fly our jets, or run our divisions, but that's not the analog to what we're providing them with IA billets. As I've stated, most IAs are admin, staff and support - apples and oranges. Would you be horrified if an Army infantry officer came to manage the galley at NASNI if our folks were in a bind? I suspect not.

Brett

 

[BOMBSonHAWKEYES]

Just think, if this situation were reversed and the Navy had been the ones to screw up their human resource management. Right now, we would have former tank commanders and infantry officers showing up to drive our ships and run our shipboard divisions. Think for a minute how absurd that sounds. Well, the same thing is going on, and it's our guys that are being told BOHICA.

That relationship doesn't really work because Navy guys aren't going over there to be infantry and tank commanders. I imagine they're supervising contractors and doing administrative work long hours/7 days a week. I doubt a large percentage of the IAs are selected because they have a background to employ, but merely because they're available and they took an oath.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Oh, you mean your average non-flying shore tour? By that standard, we should eliminate all shore billets that don't involve flying. I guess we'll have to say goodbye to all those NROTC and USNA slots, as well as NPS and the war colleges. While we're at it, let's sh!tcan the whole disassociated sea tour concept. While these IA tours may not be "fun" or seem "fair," they provide the enterprising officer with an opportunity to broaden their experience and increase their jointness. You may choose to object to them for a variety of reasons, but the fact that they're not flying billets is not a valid one.

Brett

You're comparing apples to oranges. War College, Masters Programs, NROTC slots, disassociated sea tours, etc. all directly benefit the Navy. I signed up to be in the Navy, so all those tours are a logical part of my career. Ergo, the Navy continues to get its moneys' worth from me.
Take an experienced, highly trained officer and put him in another branch of service and the Navy loses that benefit plus the officer feels like a fish out of water. I am not arguing against it because of "fun" or "fairness," I'm arguing because I simply don't see the benefit to the Navy or the officer. Pardon my "single-branch" mentality, but it seems like the Navy is paying a lot for the Army's lack of prior planning. Why should something like that become commonplace or even a REQUIREMENT for command in the Navy? (as I have heard talk that the IA tour may become... confirm or debunk if you know something.)

Maybe what I really want to know is this: How is the IA tour taking me totally out of the Navy going to help the Navy and help me be a better Naval Officer? Maybe then I'll understand better if the time comes for me to do an IA.

 

[Gatordev]

From what I understand, that particular requirement is going to morph away from the IA concept and become a command or JTF of its own.

Brett

Could be. But for now (based on a very well placed intel source at PERS) it's still part of the IA equation (regardless of whether it makes sense). Info is about a month old.

A lot of these IA billets are not just because the Army may or may not have their act together, but it's also because the CNO said we'd help. Not meant as a positive or negative, just a fact.

 

[Gatordev]

Maybe what I really want to know is this: How is the IA tour taking me totally out of the Navy going to help the Navy and help me be a better Naval Officer?

I guess in the same way any other Joint, non-Navy tour does. Added experience (and that character building stuff).

 

[Brett327]

You're comparing apples to oranges. War College, Masters Programs, NROTC slots, disassociated sea tours, etc. all directly benefit the Navy. I signed up to be in the Navy, so all those tours are a logical part of my career. Ergo, the Navy continues to get its moneys' worth from me.
Take an experienced, highly trained officer and put him in another branch of service and the Navy loses that benefit plus the officer feels like a fish out of water. I am not arguing against it because of "fun" or "fairness," I'm arguing because I simply don't see the benefit to the Navy or the officer. Pardon my "single-branch" mentality, but it seems like the Navy is paying a lot for the Army's lack of prior planning. Why should something like that become commonplace or even a REQUIREMENT for command in the Navy? (as I have heard talk that the IA tour may become... confirm or debunk if you know something.)

Maybe what I really want to know is this: How is the IA tour taking me totally out of the Navy going to help the Navy and help me be a better Naval Officer? Maybe then I'll understand better if the time comes for me to do an IA.

In brief, last time I checked, the Navy doesn't independently collect taxes and decide on what missions and programs it thinks will benefit it the most. We do IAs not because they're good for the Navy, but because they're good for the country as a whole. So, the needs of the Navy are really just an extension of the needs of OSD and the President. Big picture, my friend. Probably the most common JO shortcoming/mistake is the failure to realize their place in the big picture.

Brett

 

[PropStop]

Their's not to make reply,
Their's not to reason why,
Their's but to do and die:

 

[RockyMtnNFO]

If we get sent to the sandbox, Afghanistan included, we get training on small arms right? Can we get qualed on the Barrett .50; not that I am chompng at the bit to go back, but if you gotta go might as well make the best of it.

 

[S.O.B.]

I come back after a few months and things haven’t changed a bit. Hasn’t this horse been thoroughly beaten?


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