Inconsistent paperwork

[JohnF]

Hi, I've lurked here for a while and finally found the need to post a question.

I'm about to graduate college and am looking to apply to OCS. I feel I'm a pretty strong candidate, and so I'm going to go see an OR very shortly. However, there's one small thing in my past that I think may come up and I wanted to see if I could get any realistic input into my situation other than my wild speculation.

Basically, I experimented with MJ twice when I was 15. Yes, I know I should have known better. Yes, I should have said no. Either way, I plan on telling the OR this and hopefully getting the waiver (From what I understand, it's not too hard to get). The bigger issue is that my Freshman year of college, I did NROTC for a year as a college program student, and I did not put that I had done MJ down on my CP form. I was 17 at the time, and quite honestly it was more that I didn't want my parents to know (they were there at the time I was doing the forms) that I had tried it two years prior.

That being said, after reading all the gouge I could on this site, it appears my issue may be more with a security clearance when they do the background check. If they see that I lied on the form, even though I fessed up now, I'm thinking it may DQ me. If I told the investigator straight up that there was an inconsistency, would that help my case out at all? Or am I just being completely paranoid about this whole bit?

Finally, I'd like to end this proving I used the search function and my query hasn't been answered directly already.
http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2734
http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=141116
http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8164
http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4549
http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9760
http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=132844
http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=134848

I've looked at these seven discussions that were posted in the thread about good gouge for drug waivers.

I've also read (on this site) and heard advice to just not say anything and it will probably never be found out. I'd simply rather not start out applying to be a Naval Officer by straight lying about my past.



I'd like to thank everyone sincerely in advance for any responses.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Basically, I experimented with MJ twice when I was 15...my issue may be more with a security clearance when they do the background check. If they see that I lied on the form, even though I fessed up now, I'm thinking it may DQ me. If I told the investigator straight up that there was an inconsistency, would that help my case out at all? Or am I just being completely paranoid about this whole bit?

I've also read (on this site) and heard advice to just not say anything and it will probably never be found out. I'd simply rather not start out applying to be a Naval Officer by straight lying about my past.

You're hardly the first guy to have tried out the cheeba in high school. Be honest and you'll be fine. Whoever told you to just not say anything was giving you very bad advice. Finding out you lied about something raises all kinds of flags for your background check...makes them wonder what else you're lying about or have 'accidentally' omitted.

 

[OnTopTime]

Your instinct not to lie is the correct one. You must answer all questions posed during the application process truthfully. I don't know what a CP form is, but if your answers on that form are made available during an OCS application and they show an inconsistency with other answers, you must be prepared to provide a truthful explanation.

Kids do stupid stuff. It's part of growing up and learning to be an adult. The important thing is fessing up to your mistakes when necessary and learning from the experience. I think you're right that being dishonest on the CP form is more of a problem than using MJ twice at age 15, but it's probably not a show stopper. It all depends on how you handle it going forward.

 

[Boomhower]

*Disclaimer* Every word after this paragraph could be 100% wrong, bad gouge, not true, false, etc. Feel free to call me out on it. I am only thinking via keyboard. *End Disclaimer*

Question for all: Will the ROTC paperwork be in with his OCS package paperwork?

They seem unrelated. If they aren't actually in the same folder I seriously doubt that the right hand is going to talk to the left (as we all know is the Navy way), and I doubt anyone will notice or care. Now, security clearance stuff may be an issue down the road, but for getting into OCS I don't know that anyone will see it. Will they?

*End of potential (read: likely) falsehoods*

Good on you for wanting to tell the truth. Whether I am right or wrong, you should probably just fess up to everything. One thing I found out in the Navy after watching lots of people get into trouble is that it was rarely the act that got people into big trouble, it was the cover up that they tried to pull to get out of it.

 

[JohnF]

Thanks for the responses, really appreciate it.

Basically what I'm worried about is that during the background check (or even during the OCS application), they're going to see that I fessed up to it on my OCS app, but failed to disclose it on my NROTC college program paperwork.

I feel that if I give an honest explanation, I should be fine. I just wanted to get some honest input. Thanks again.

 

[Triumph57]

I have direct experience with this exact same thing (sort of). I went to see a Marine OSO and lied on the paperwork about having done marijuana. I continued to lie at MEPS and during my flight physical. Feeling guilty about this, I confessed. The Marine OSO rejected me, unwilling to help me out after I had been dishonest. However, I went to a Navy OR and told him my whole story. He said he could have an addition to my MEPS paperwork made and to put it down when redoing my security clearance paperwork and Navy application. I did so, the MEPS paperwork went through, my security clearance was approved and I was selected to go to Navy OCS as a SNFO. So it can be done. Be honest. I really wish I was honest from day 1. It would have been so much easier.

 

[navy09]

To echo everyone else, smoking MJ twice in high school is not an issue. Lying on the ROTC paperwork is obviously a crime but it will not be an issue for your application process. If you go on to try to get into law enforcement or some crazy high security clearance you'd definitely have some explaining to do but you can cross that bridge if/when you come to it.

 

[Seafort]

Midn09 might b able to back this up if I am right, and full disclosure, I may be wrong, but unless you were Advanced Standing, you were never actually in the Navy employ. I was a college program, non-scholarship mid, but I was also advanced standing. I was paid a nice tidy sum of money for three years, until I DORed for lack of confidence. My NROTC paperwork is part of my service record which is in Pensacola right now. It will come up. Since you were not advanced standing, you should not have a service record.

 

[navy09]

Seafort, as others have hinted at, the Navy isn't nearly as organized or connected as most on the outside would think. I have no idea if your college program "service record" exists somewhere; I doubt it. Being in ROTC you never have a real Navy service record, but that's beside the point.

Even if such a record existed with "said he never did drugs" scrawled across the front in red ink, how would the OCS board ever know about or see it? Again, that right hand won't talk to the left.

 

[Seafort]

I have no doubt mine exists, I even know where it is, and who I had to contact about it. I have already been informed that it will come up at my board (whenever I finally get there) and I will have to explain my behavior as a midshipman. I was five months shy of commissioning when I dropped. I did have to pay a portion of my stipend back (the Navy could have, of course, required me to serve time enlisted, but I don't believe that's done anymore, if it ever was) in order to be released from my obligation. I was not scholarship, however. The Navy never paid for tuition.

My thoughts were that someone who comes in for one year and receives no funding from the Navy incurs no obligation and has no "real" paperwork. Certainly nothing that would be archived in Pensacola in case he or she decides to try again (the case with me). But I don't really know. I'm just guessing based on my own, admittedly odd, experiences.

 

[nzachman]

Just assume that the Navy or those who will investigate you have your prior ROTC paperwork and be truthful. You may get investigated for a TS clearance very soon (I did between Pro-rec and final select) and they will find that stuff. What are you going to tell them when the find out you lied? "I thought the Navy was disorganized and wouldn't find out!" Hell, you already posted your drug use on here, so why not just be 100% truthful at this point?

 

[JohnF]

Once again, I really appreciate the responses.

I understand that it might not come up at the OCS board, but if the security clearance background investigation is as comprehensive as I've read it is, they will no doubt check my ROTC paperwork. I imagine I should just straight up admit that I wasn't truthful about drug use on it (if the document even exists anymore...I'm not even sure if they keep that on file if you DOR as a college programmer with no obligation). As you all have said, and as I imagined, it will take some explaining but it shouldn't prevent me from getting a clearance or really hurt my chances at the boards.

 

[nzachman]

^^^ Good on you and good luck!

 

[navy09]

if the security clearance background investigation is as comprehensive as I've read it is, they will no doubt check my ROTC paperwork.

Again, I'll straying into territory that I'm by no means an expert on. For a SECRET they'll generally just read your SF86 and the run a NACLC and credit check (this is open source info). It's not as comprehensive as you think and I can't imagine they would know about or care about this issue.

Edit to add: honesty and integrity is is of the utmost importance in this buisness. I'm just pointing out that you willl make it through the whole process without anyone caring to bring up the issue you raised in your original post. If you choose to broadcast that info to the world you may have an OR, board member, or investigator who thinks lying on that form constitutes the level of dishonesty that should preclude you from being a Naval Officer.

 

[JohnF]

Thanks for the info midn, I really appreciate it (I know I say that a lot).

I guess I'm just paranoid about someone noticing it and saying, "Sorry kid, nothing we can do now, you lied on the form." It doesn't matter though, I'll let the chips fall where they may.