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IKE Double Pump

snake020

Contributor
Literally CNO's job is to man, train, and equip- and that's the law too.

I think what you're really asking is who talks to who and what do they say when someone says they want another aircraft carrier deployed next year, but the answer is yes you can have an aircraft carrier but no, it's not going to be able to do everything it's supposed to do because lots of stuff is still broken or worn out.

My point is although the service chiefs don't control the operational requirements since the COCOMs do, shouldn't the CNO be pushing back and saying the debt we're going to incur long term debt by operating this way which is going to lead us to more problems in manning, training, and equipping the force? In the wake of the C7F collisions, there was a lot made about ship COs not feeling like they could say no to a requirement without getting fired, yet I haven't heard any CNO in recent memory give pushback on similar demands at a larger scale.

I faintly remember Jay Johnson doing so, but my memory might be clouded.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
We also have plenty of daily, weekly, and monthly PMS that we accomplish on deployment. Hell, there are some checks that were save until deployment because it's just easier to get authorization and water space to do them while deployed versus in American waters.
I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about strict controls on semi-annual or less frequent when the last pre-deployment upkeep and first post deployment upkeep are 10-12 months apart.
 

DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
My point is although the service chiefs don't control the operational requirements since the COCOMs do, shouldn't the CNO be pushing back and saying the debt we're going to incur long term debt by operating this way which is going to lead us to more problems in manning, training, and equipping the force? In the wake of the C7F collisions, there was a lot made about ship COs not feeling like they could say no to a requirement without getting fired, yet I haven't heard any CNO in recent memory give pushback on similar demands at a larger scale.

I faintly remember Jay Johnson doing so, but my memory might be clouded.
Again, how do you know that he hasn’t? At the end of the day, it’s SD’s call. The aforementioned SDOBs can give you a glimpse at some of that, though that process is distinct from GFM, generally.

As Brett is saying, and I can't comment on the specifics of these ships, but there are lots of deployments that CNO, Fleet Forces, and/or SECNAV say "no can do," but are overruled by JCS/SECDEF, and out goes that ship/unit. In that sense, you could make the argument that even the CNO doesn't have the power he needs to equip his force properly.

Separately, WRT 7th Fleet, while I wasn't there pre-collisions, the way I see how business runs vs. how it happens now is there are certain maintenance and training periods that are 100% protected and they will not even be offered up for tasking to PACFLT and PACFLT knows it, so they don't typically ask, and when they do, they get a strong no. I get the sense there's a lot more of "yes, we can do that mission at the cost of mission x, y, or z," and a lot less of "yes, we can do that no matter what//break break// CO - get underway even if you aren't ready."
 

AllAmerican75

FUBIJAR
None
Contributor
I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about strict controls on semi-annual or less frequent when the last pre-deployment upkeep and first post deployment upkeep are 10-12 months apart.

So are you talking about the normal allowances for periodicity windows that are accounted for in the JFMM?
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
So are you talking about the normal allowances for periodicity windows that are accounted for in the JFMM?
No.

It's completely unrealistic to expect every division to reset all annuals in the upkeep before deployment, some of which they could have performed as recently as 3 months ago, when they're busy fixing the broken stuff that has to work before you leave. Semi annuals have a max of ~8 months between performance.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
It’s only broken if someone has envisioned a working alternative. Otherwise, it’s just managing the challenges (albeit some self inflicted) as best it can given the circumstances we find ourselves in. Some of these challenges are a result of external shocks to the DoD system, some are due to leadership failures. I’m all ears when it comes to reimagining GN, or “jointness,” but thus far I haven’t heard much that seems actionable.
 

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
Yeah, I agree. I know when my car is broken, I don't need to imagine what I will replace it with. Furthermore, that posted article points out an alternative, so I'm not sure what your point is, @Brett327 .

The current process pits regional commanders against each other and the services in an eternal power struggle. Troops and equipment are caught in the middle, and being run ragged and used up ever faster, as our strategic goals become ever more murky. It's time for improvement.
 

scoolbubba

Brett327 gargles ballsacks
pilot
Contributor
I find your guys' lack of faith in the 'big picture' strategic goals disturbing. If we don't use up all this equipment, we'll never get new stuff to run ragged, don't ya see?
 
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