"I say to Mr. Obama: Let's get on with it. Let's invest in the future."

[flyn4pride]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090720/ap_on_sc/us_apollo_astronauts

As the Apollo 11 crew gathered at the Air and Space center they seem to have a program they would like to see President Obama start up and that is landing on Mars. Currently NASA from what the article says and I'm paraphrasing this, is still "stuck on the moon" and they should shift their focus to something bigger and better (MARS). Though President's motto has been "Yes We Can," I do not think during the times of our current economic and global situations this project/goal will gain much backing even with an aiming point years down the road. As it may be I though, I think it would be cool and probably will happen one day and it doesn't hurt the have the Apollo 11 crew ask.

 

[Picaroon]

I feel that the amount of money and time we spend on things like space research and programs are minuscule compared to the amount we waste on useless things. Unfortunately, even going into the election President Obama made it clear that space wasn't a top priority. I hope he will change that stance because the benefits of the space program are huge.

 

[C420sailor]

I hope he will change that stance because the benefits of the space program are huge.

And think of the jobs it would create...

 

[Clux4]

I feel that the amount of money and time we spend on things like space research and programs are minuscule compared to the amount we waste on useless things. Unfortunately, even going into the election President Obama made it clear that space wasn't a top priority. I hope he will change that stance because the benefits of the space program are huge.

Apart from jobs in this basket economy, what other benefits are we getting from space research? I think we ripped those benefits years ago, what is left is ........

 

[MasterBates]

The space race gave our tech sector a 10-30 year leap in 5.

If not more than that.

The "Mars Race" may very well give us workable fusion, advanced medical stuff and cheaper costs to orbit.

 

[torpedo0126]

The "Mars Race" may very well give us workable fusion, advanced medical stuff and cheaper costs to orbit.

Can't we just invest in that directly?

 

[BACONATOR]

All I can say is that the slack-jawed yokels who have HUGE opinions on this stuff don't know shit!

"The space program is SUCH a waste of money! We spend billions, and for what? To explore space? It's a worthless endeavor!"

Ya, jim bob. Ever heard of some of these things: Plastic, countless medical advances/vaccinations discovered/tested in micro-gravity, biological advances, farming advances, weather prediction and disaster prediction advances, GPS???

All of these things were discovered via our space program and I'm positive I'm missing at least a few more HUGE things we take for granted today because of brave men who ventured into the unknown of space.

 

[mmx1]

All I can say is that the slack-jawed yokels who have HUGE opinions on this stuff don't know shit!

"The space program is SUCH a waste of money! We spend billions, and for what? To explore space? It's a worthless endeavor!"

Ya, jim bob. Ever heard of some of these things: Plastic, countless medical advances/vaccinations discovered/tested in micro-gravity, biological advances, farming advances, weather prediction and disaster prediction advances, GPS???

All of these things were discovered via our space program and I'm positive I'm missing at least a few more HUGE things we take for granted today because of brave men who ventured into the unknown of space.

Really? What are the medicinal advances we've gotten from all those years of weeklong shuttle missions? And how is GPS a spinoff of space exploration when it was a DoD initiative?

Exploring space for the spinoffs is like buying happy meals for the toys. Is there value, sure. Is it essential or indispensable in tough economic times? Hell no. I'd sooner cut space spending than I would defense.

 

[MasterBates]

Computers. Velcro. Synthetic Lubricants.

3D CAD/CAM (affects all industry by slashing prototyping costs)


There is a whole damn list. And we got far more out of the space program than we put in.

I say cut the fucking welfare nanny state, and put my ass on Mars. I'll volunteer to be the lander pilot for the first mission.

 

[phrogpilot73]

http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html

I'd sooner cut space spending than I would defense.

I'd rather cut all the other bullshit pork programs that come out of congress...

 

[BACONATOR]

Really? What are the medicinal advances we've gotten from all those years of weeklong shuttle missions? And how is GPS a spinoff of space exploration when it was a DoD initiative?

Exploring space for the spinoffs is like buying happy meals for the toys. Is there value, sure. Is it essential or indispensable in tough economic times? Hell no. I'd sooner cut space spending than I would defense.

Well using MB's examples alone, I think it's safe to say that through computers (silicon microchips anyone?) we have gotten our investment in the space program back 10-fold.

Scientists 60 years ago probably couldn't fathom how advanced we've become in computer technology because of the space program. And GPS was a direct result of the space program, DoD funded or not. Hell it used to be classified and only recently did they allow civilian GPS to be as accurate as it is.

If you can't see how those two examples alone are worth the investment, then you're just being obtuse.

Medical advances? 2 minutes on google gives a BUNCH of examples:

http://library.thinkquest.org/11348/#Medical_Advances
http://techtran.msfc.nasa.gov/at_home/athospital.htm

EDIT: Another perfect example: CCD technology. Everything from your Point n shoot camera (CCD/CMOS) to advanced national security satellites/medical photographic equipment/etc.

 

[mmx1]

Without space exploration the Air Force would still have developed ballistic missiles (from which the space program drew heavily for launch vehicles) and surveillance satellites, and we would still have had a need for a navigational system independent of ground stations. Velcro (and teflon and tang) existed long before NASA and were only popularized by their association with the space program - so perhaps NASA is owed some advertising fees.

Yes, there have been applications of computer technology to medicine, but the hyped benefits of microgravity experiments have not materialized (partially because of how slow we've been to create room for sustained experiments and partially because hype is, well, hype). I haven't seen a serious exploration of the economic benefits of the space program - the popular estimates come from folks in the space program or industry, which is like asking Lockheed Martin executives about the value of defense spending.

Randomly attributing stuff to the space program is just dishonest. As torpedo pointed out, if it's the technology you're after, then why not invest in it directly? The space program has vast intangible benefits in terms of national pride (because to be honest, we went to the Moon to beat the Soviets) and serving as a catalyst for science education and research. At least be honest and justify it on those terms. I could draw up a list of the spinoffs of the F-22 or SDI, but should we be trying to justify defense spending on its spinoffs vice the primary goals?

NASA regularly claims an 7-10 for 1 benefit for every dollar spent, but one of its own studies from the 1970s indicates a return of about 43%.
http://books.google.com/books?id=LK...WlkJ8M&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2If there's such a dramatic return on investment as claimed, then why hasn't the private sector jumped on the bandwagon?

 

[Brett327]

Computers. Velcro. Synthetic Lubricants.

3D CAD/CAM (affects all industry by slashing prototyping costs)


There is a whole damn list. And we got far more out of the space program than we put in.

I say cut the fucking welfare nanny state, and put my ass on Mars. I'll volunteer to be the lander pilot for the first mission.

I'm all for space exploration, but let's not overstate the "advances" we attribute to it. There's a difference between technologies that were used in the space program vs. technologies that were developed as a result of it. Velcro, for example, was invented during WWII, so while it may have been used in the space program, it was not a result of it. Similarly, synthetic petroleum products were invented by the Germans during WWII because they didn't have a lot of oil to spare. Computers were certainly miniaturized for space, but were not created by the space program.

Like I said, I think space exploration is swell, and there are (despite my debunking) a host of ways that our technology base expands as a result. That said, we have to make tough choices about how to spend our limited tax dollars in trying economic times, and I think you can make a pretty good argument that the space program probably isn't going to give us the most bang for our collective buck.

Brett

 

[Junkball]

Similarly, synthetic petroleum products were invented by the Germans during WWII because they didn't have a lot of oil to spare.
Brett

Necessity is the mother of invention. I think that a trip to Mars would have us coming up with some worthwhile technological advances in addition to the outright" small step for (a) man, giant leap for mankind"-type accomplishment. At least the money would be well-spent, unlike some of the horse s!#* Congress just passed.

 

[jtmedli]

Moon? Ha...been there done that!! Got the flag to prove it!!


The space program did cause the development of micro-computers and Integrated circuits (IC's) which, in turn, have developed everything we use today. Cell phones, GPS units in your cars, microcontrollers (used in all sorts of useless crap that we use everyday), and numerous others that I need not list.