HR 1022- It's BAAAACK!! ... do the Dems want your guns ?? Assault or otherwise??

[Lawman]

Not really a fan of the 'assault' weapons ban, I don't think it does much at all........but when the heck was the last time a regular citizen got into it with a criminal when both had 'assault' weapons? Where the heck do you live, the Columbian countryside?

Side note, the only recorded case of an assault rifle being used to commit a felony was by a Police Officer in Dayton Ohio.

By the way I never had anything other then cheap junk weapons and the occassional stolen glock or Smith pistol. Your typical inner city criminal isnt armed with firepower like they want to legislate. They carry garbage weapons for the most part because you dont need a 1000 dollar mil spec rifle to rob a person on the street or get them to step back from the cash register. A Jennings .32 or rusted old taurus .38 revolver will do just as well and they are a hell of a lot more concealable.

I have seen a Tec-9 one time total in actual instances on the street and it wouldnt have worked if that guy had wanted it to, it was missing parts. Probably why he dropped it and ran when we came on the scene.

 

[skidz]

Side note, the only recorded case of an assault weapon being used to commit a felony was by a Police Officer in Dayton Ohio.

Don't forget about the bank robery in north Holywood with the guys wearing full body armor with AK-47s(or copies) along with an HK built infantry rifle(not sure the exact model).

 

[Lawman]

Don't forget about the bank robery in north Holywood with the guys wearing full body armor with AK-47s(or copies) along with an HK built infantry rifle(not sure the exact model).

Those were not registered NFA III Assault rifles, they were illegal weapons either due to modification or importation without documentation (ie black market).

 

[Flash]

Side note, the only recorded case of an assault weapon being used to commit a felony was by a Police Officer in Dayton Ohio.

Maybe in your jurisdiction, but there has been a lot more than one......

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,151105,00.html

http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=27248

......and many more.......

 

[Lawman]

Maybe in your jurisdiction, but there has been a lot more than one......

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,151105,00.html

http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=27248

......and many more.......

You wanna take a guess at how many ag assaults, shootings, and hold ups dont make the paper. These are in the paper specifically because they are the irregularity in the big picture. And "my" juristiction was the 7th deadliest city in the country when I was doing it

 

[Flash]

You wanna take a guess at how many ag assaults, shootings, and hold ups dont make the paper. These are in the paper specifically because they are the irregularity in the big picture. And "my" juristiction was the 7th deadliest city in the country when I was doing it

Well, it is still a lot more than one.......

 

[Lawman]

Well, it is still a lot more than one.......

Ahh but those are only Assualt weapons by technical definition given by the media, and being that this is an aviation forum and military to boot its pretty well understood how often they get it right.

Those are not Assault Rifles as they are not select fire rifles. Same as the guns used at the North Hollywood shoot out werent legally aquired or built assault rifles because they were either illegal imports or illegal modifications to weapons that wernt select fire to begin with. The only real deal Assault Rifle, meaning it started life as a registered NFA class III select fire weapon, to be used in a crime was the one I mentioned earlier by the Ohio Police Officer. Any other mention you hear is somebody trying to use a buzz word to either sensationalize a news report or to put weight to a political arguement.

Now if your talking about gang bangers and bank robbers using weapons other then the cheap junk pistols I mentioned earlier, yes that does happen but it is the exception to the rule.

 

[skidz]

I believe an assault rifle is an assault rifle, whether legally obtained or not. We all know the proper definition of assault rifle, which you have mentioned a few times already, and "legally obtained and registered" is not in it. Are assault weapons used by the enemies of the police, yes, rare, but yes. And they are most likely not legally obtained nor registered.

I am not attempting to discredit nor argue with you. You are correct with the only conflict between two people using registered class III assault weaepons being with the Ohio Police Officer, but not the only conflict with assault weapons.

 

[Flash]

Ahh but those are only Assualt weapons by technical definition given by the media, and being that this is an aviation forum and military to boot its pretty well understood how often they get it right.

Those are not Assault Rifles as they are not select fire rifles. Same as the guns used at the North Hollywood shoot out werent legally aquired or built assault rifles because they were either illegal imports or illegal modifications to weapons that wernt select fire to begin with. The only real deal Assault Rifle, meaning it started life as a registered NFA class III select fire weapon, to be used in a crime was the one I mentioned earlier by the Ohio Police Officer. Any other mention you hear is somebody trying to use a buzz word to either sensationalize a news report or to put weight to a political arguement.

Now if your talking about gang bangers and bank robbers using weapons other then the cheap junk pistols I mentioned earlier, yes that does happen but it is the exception to the rule.

You and I are talking about two different things, when I mean 'assault' rifle I am talking about the guns that are on the list of this particular bill to be banned. I believe that you are using the term for machine guns, as defined by the bill that you described. Splitting hairs but an important distinction, hence the mix up. But if you continue to use the term assault rifle then you are just as guilty of mis-use/use of the term as the media. Nowhere in the law did I see 'assault rifle'........

http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/nfa.htm

http://www.recguns.com/Sources/IIF1.html

"NFA weapons are: machine guns, sound suppressors (a.k.a. silencers), short barreled shotguns, short barreled rifles, destructive devices and "any other weapons"."

 

[Lawman]

SKidz If it isnt select fire it isnt an Assault Rifle. Since the licensing and control of these weapons by making them NFA III firearms in this country there has only been 1 use of an Assault rifle that started life as an assault Rifle to commit a crime. Weapons that are illegally modified to either accept select fire or fire on uncontrolled automatic have been used but on extreamly rare occasions. Those are not Assault Rifles by definition. No actual weapon system imported illegally as a stand alone system has been used in this country to commit a crime. Parts however have been obtained to allow for conversion of existing weapons within the country but again that falls into the previously mentioned group of firearms. Given the right tools and knowledge you can make a Glock 17 fire its intire magazine with a single pull of the trigger, you can do the same with many firearms. Put the right mix of lightweight parts in a 1911 and with decent training you can bump fire it like nobodys buisness but these are not Assualt Rifles, Automatic Pistols, or Machine Guns.

What the ban includes are Assault Weapons to include not only the individual firearms themselves but magazines and cosmetic parts. This deffinition didnt exist until the ban in 94' and because of it the two terms have been used incorrectly to descripe Assualt Weapons. The M-16 issued to me at OCS was an Assualt Rifle. The AR-15 in my bedroom is not an Assault Rifle but it is an Assault Weapon by definition of this bill and no other.

 

[MasterBates]

Assault Rifle = Select fire rifle (i.e full auto or burst fire capable along with semi-automatic) chambered in an intermediate cartridge. (5.56 NATO, 5.45x39, 7.62x39, 6.8 SPC, etc)

Examples include M-16's, M-4's, AK-47's, and AK-74's.

Assault Weapon = Term coined by gun banners to make Joe Sixpack who does not know much about weapons, think that they are banning Machine Guns or Assault Rifles. Defined by cosmetic features, for the most part.

Example include AR-15s with certain features, M-4gerys, AKM's, and most all semi-auto only versions of real "Assault Rifles"..

 

[Flash]

SKidz If it isnt select fire it isnt an Assault Rifle. Since the licensing and control of these weapons by making them NFA III firearms in this country there has only been 1 use of an Assault rifle that started life as an assault Rifle to commit a crime. Weapons that are illegally modified to either accept select fire or fire on uncontrolled automatic have been used but on extreamly rare occasions. Those are not Assault Rifles by definition. No actual weapon system imported illegally as a stand alone system has been used in this country to commit a crime. Parts however have been obtained to allow for conversion of existing weapons within the country but again that falls into the previously mentioned group of firearms. Given the right tools and knowledge you can make a Glock 17 fire its intire magazine with a single pull of the trigger, you can do the same with many firearms. Put the right mix of lightweight parts in a 1911 and with decent training you can bump fire it like nobodys buisness but these are not Assualt Rifles, Automatic Pistols, or Machine Guns.

What the ban includes are Assault Weapons to include not only the individual firearms themselves but magazines and cosmetic parts. This deffinition didnt exist until the ban in 94' and because of it the two terms have been used incorrectly to descripe Assualt Weapons. The M-16 issued to me at OCS was an Assualt Rifle. The AR-15 in my bedroom is not an Assault Rifle but it is an Assault Weapon by definition of this bill and no other.

Sorry guys but I think you are splitting hairs a little too much on this one. The average Joe Sixpack is not going to know or care about the difference between an assault rifle and an assault weapon. This forum is obviously not filled with a bunch of Joe Sixpack's though........

When you get in the details like this you lose a little bit of your argument. Many of the people I know who are not a fan of assault rifles/weapons could care less what the heck you call it, they just don't want AK-47's (single, center, multiple fire.....whatever type) on the street. Stick to the more practicle and reasonable, in my mind, arguments that this type of ban would do little to stem gun violence because 1-The rarity of use of assault weapons/rifles to commit crimes 2-The easy availability of used assault weapons/rifles 3-The ease of use of many weapons that are left off the list. Again, if you get hung up on labeling it just makes you look bad.

Anyways, I still could not find in the NFA Class III definition in the law where is says assault anything (the 1968 US code I linked). Please point it out to me if I missed it.

 

[skidz]

Sign the petition against the HR 1022 here. This thing cannot go through, it's completely unconstitutional.

 

[Brett327]

Sign the petition against the HR 1022 here. This thing cannot go through, it's completely unconstitutional.

Online petitions are completely worthless - don't waste your time. Regardless of what we might think, it's constitutional merits can only be determined by the Supreme Court, so you declaring it as such is kind of a non-sequitur.

Brett

 

[schwarti]

Now, I'm a registered Democrat, sort of liberal (sort of...) and not too interested in high-capacity mags or automatics, but god dammit, if they don't let me get an M1 I'm gonna flip out.