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How not to conduct a command investigation

Brett327

Well-Known Member
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Super Moderator
Contributor
So, you’re saying that because some fall short, the rest should abandon their principles?
 

ea6bflyr

Working Class Bum
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Super Moderator
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So, you’re saying that because some fall short, the rest should abandon their principles?
Nope. Just saying that not all COs play by the rules and not all RS play the same FITREP game. Some even game the system. :eek:
 

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
And those that game the system are rewarded for doing so with higher promotion rates, etc.
 

UInavy

Registered User
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
And those that game the system are rewarded for doing so with higher promotion rates, etc.
Have you ever sat in on a promotion or selection board? After doing that, I realized that the system is the 'least unfair' it can be-anecdotal evidence aside.
 

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
I’m not saying it’s unfair.

I’m saying it’s the best that can be achieved given current systematic limitations.

And those that don’t work to maximize the chances for their people in the name of “integrity” are making meaningless sacrifices.
 

ea6bflyr

Working Class Bum
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Super Moderator
Contributor
Please expound. Game the system?
Some COs give EVERYONE an EP to ensure they have an opportunity if presented. I ran into a guy I went through the FRS with, a total clueless dirtbag, who made DH. He was clearly not OP DH material. When I asked him how he got DH, he told me that his CO hooked every JO up with an EP. The clearest example of gaming the system I can provide.

Others, like you, use the system for which it was created. (Only the strong survive).
 

Brett327

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And those that don’t work to maximize the chances for their people in the name of “integrity” are making meaningless sacrifices.
Those who would recommend an officer for something they aren't ready for because they don't want to have an uncomfortable, but frank conversation about that individuals performance risk placing ill-suited officers into positions where they fail. Is that what you're recommending?
 

Brett327

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Super Moderator
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Some COs give EVERYONE an EP to ensure they have an opportunity if presented. I ran into a guy I went through the FRS with, a total clueless dirtbag, who made DH. He was clearly not OP DH material. When I asked him how he got DH, he told me that his CO hooked every JO up with an EP. The clearest example of gaming the system I can provide.

Others, like you, use the system for which it was created. (Only the strong survive).
Tracking. I don't really see that as gaming the system, per se. As I just posted above, it's lacking the fortitude to have that frank conversation and being transparent about why you rank some over others.
 

bubblehead

Registered Member
Contributor
Polys are pretty much worthless in the eyes of the law and problematic as an investigatory tool.
It's because they do not work as currently applied. They are also pseudo science which is why they are inadmissible in court. One would think that the USG would follow the lead of our legal system, but they do not, especially when you look at the interrogative approaches that the polygraph examiners use on subjects.
 
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SynixMan

HKG Based Artificial Excrement Pilot
pilot
Contributor
The Navy has stuffed about 20lbs of shit into a 1980s 5lb bag with the FITREP system we have. Sins of omission, mandatory trait average progression, meaningless blocks of “I’m so great” text, random time periods of zero significance, etc. So many of these things serve to obfuscate the honest evaluation of performance and potential, because those are genuinely hard conversations. I don’t hold out significant hopes for the eventual replacement either.
 

bubblehead

Registered Member
Contributor
The Navy has stuffed about 20lbs of shit into a 1980s 5lb bag with the FITREP system we have. Sins of omission, mandatory trait average progression, meaningless blocks of “I’m so great” text, random time periods of zero significance, etc. So many of these things serve to obfuscate the honest evaluation of performance and potential, because those are genuinely hard conversations. I don’t hold out significant hopes for the eventual replacement either.
Well, in the Reserve it's great because I look like [insert deity here] doing [insert miracle here]. FITREPs are all written in a vacuum and selection boards have no clue if what you did as presented in your Block 41 is truth or fiction. At least in the Reserve, that's why I've always said that we have "different standards for selection." How else could an active component 2xFOS for O4 come to the Reserve and make O5 and beyond?!
 

Brett327

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selection boards have no clue if what you did as presented in your Block 41 is truth or fiction.
How is that different from AD selection boards? Frankly, boards for either component aren't spending any time reading Block 41. The guy briefing your record may, but there's no fact checking going on.

When you say RC FITREPs are written in a vacuum, what do you mean?
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
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Super Moderator
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How is that different from AD selection boards? Frankly, boards for either component aren't spending any time reading Block 41. The guy briefing your record may, but there's no fact checking going on.

When you say RC FITREPs are written in a vacuum, what do you mean?
It's no different from the active side. If anything, the problem is small summary group size because CNRFC makes their manning work by cross-assigning people (that's where drill site != mobilization UIC; huge goatscrew for all involved and not ideal). But that's partially correctable via a soft breakout in Block 41.

He's just on his usual jeremiad on how SELRES is AFU . . .
 
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