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How high is this ATF scandle going to go?

Bevo16

Registered User
pilot
Most of you guys follow this gun stuff as close as I do, but the attention span for the public at large is not going to pick up on what has really gone on with our Executive Branch and firearm policy. I will not hold my breath on the mainstream media picking up on the depth and political implications either. This scandal (if properly exposed) could be enough to sink Eric Holder, all of the brass at the ATF, and (hopefully) Hillary Clinton, Janet Napolitano, and maybe even President Obama himself.

President Obama has never been a friend to the American shooter and that's probably because he actually understands why our founding fathers wrote the 2nd amendment. So, shortly after taking office BHO made it his mission to roll back our gun rights and made it his stated position that he wanted to re-institute the so called "assault weapons" ban that President Bush allowed to expire. Obama became a friend of gun and ammunition manufactures world wide because a run on firearms in the US took place on an epic scale. Even with both houses of Congress, Obama never got this issue to a vote. Why? Well, he was busy somewhere else. Mexico.

Even in his first days in office, Obama pointed toward Mexico as justification for tighter gun laws in the US. This article from Feb of 2009 has some enlightening groundwork:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=6960824&page=1


(Nevermind the fact that automatic weapons and grenades are not fucking available in the US, but why let the facts get in the way of your agenda...this will be a theme.

In their first months in office, the Obama admin were beating this drum virtually non-stop. President Obama, Hillary Clinton and several democrat senators kept rolling out that this statistic that 90% of the guns in Mexico come from the United States. It was a lie, and nowhere close to the truth. Fox News did a great job of pointing out this fact in this article:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/02/myth-percent-small-fraction-guns-mexico-come/
Obama must have been frustrated that he was not able to simply lie with impunity, and there was one single news organization willing to drag his lies out into the open. So, what to do. What to do. Well, how about having the ATF run a covert operation with the goal of FLOODING Mexico with guns. Hey, if there aren't enough US originated guns in Mexico for you to make your point and get some traction on banning US guns, just fucking plant them there. And when US Gun dealers try to blow the whistle on it, have the ATF cover it up and actively work FOR the Mexican drug cartels in supplying them with weapons. No, not just any weapons, but the exact high tech military style weapons that YOU CLAIM YOU ARE TRYING TO PREVENT GOING TO MEXICO!!

Begin "Operation Fast and Furious". What a great name. After all, when you are trying to create crime statistics in Mexico to further an agenda to restrict American's constitutional rights, there is no time to waste.

This article will show you the tip of the iceberg:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...as-new-testimony-is-expected-to-reveal-depth/

The Kliff's notes version is that the ATF deliberately funneled weapons into Mexico and was encouraging straw purchases in the US. When gun dealers tried to follow the provisions of their FFL and report their suspicions of straw purchases, the ATF ordered them to continue the sales. The estimated death toll for the guns supplied by the ATF operation is over ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY, and that's just on the Mexican side. There is reasonable probability that Border Patrol agent Brian Terry was killed by one of these weapons. A Mexican Military HELICOPTER was shot down with a rifle that was supplied to Mexican cartels by the ATF.

This goes right to the top. An operation of this scope simply does not go off without Presidential Approval, and the Justice Department (most likely Holder himself) would have to personally approve the breech of law that allowed the guns to go across the border.

The frightening aspect of this situation is that it serves as evidence of how far President Obama will go down a path with the ultimate goal of curbing our Constitutional rights. One hundred and fifty dead Mexican law enforcement alone. SEVEN HUNDRED more of these weapons recovered from crime scenes...all with the goal of taking away YOUR gun rights.

I doubt that this will get the traction in the media that it should, and few will understand how outraged that they should be. If President Obama knew of this operation, quite frankly he should be impeached. Ordering US gun laws to be broken to create a Mexican crime wave that resulted in the death of hundreds of Mexican officials (and even one US Agent) certainly qualifies as a "high crime". If a private American citizen knowingly sells a gun to a criminal and that gun is used in a crime, the seller can be charged as an accessory to the crime. Our elected leaders must be held to the same standards, if not higher. Certainly some level of under cover operations should be allowed by law enforcement. The scope of this crime and political nature is totally unforgivable.
 

Sapper!

Excuse the BS...
Did you miss this a the bottom of the page or are you in on the joke? Just curious.......

I thought it was funny? Card carrying NRA member here.

The story was DoEd had SWAT serve a warrant for delinquent student loans turns out it was for something else.
The real joke to me is that of all the things the media should be reporting on they dont (disinformation/distraction) and then in this case with the SWAT team they actually try and screw it up. Here is the real article:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/0...-target-california-couple-in/?test=latestnews

Seriously I talk in passing with people about the constitutional violations, the media's failings, and the banksters, people think I'm the crazy one.
 

lowflier03

So no $hit there I was
pilot

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Something to note, the facts and figures for the arms seized at crime scenes, number of Mexican federal agents killed/shot and the helicopter downing are all from the Mexican government, not the most reliable source of info in the world. The number of arms sold by the stores also seems to come from them alone so far, the fewer they sold illegally would help their case too.

That first one is farce.

This (strangely similar one) is tragedy.

Also, no getting much airplay. But I digress.

I thought it was funny? Card carrying NRA member here.

The story was DoEd had SWAT serve a warrant for delinquent student loans turns out it was for something else.
The real joke to me is that of all the things the media should be reporting on they dont (disinformation/distraction) and then in this case with the SWAT team they actually try and screw it up. Here is the real article:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/0...-target-california-couple-in/?test=latestnews

Seriously I talk in passing with people about the constitutional violations, the media's failings, and the banksters, people think I'm the crazy one.

Maybe because it ain't that big of a deal. Other than his claims of being innocent and that a 'SWAT team' busted down his door, is there anything else? It could have been just regular federal agents serving a warrant, I would guess that the DOE IG doesn't even have a SWAT team. And busting down his door early in the morning then cuffing him while they search for evidence isn't exactly a bad thing, I would argue it's good procedure. You don't think so? Why not ask the FBI, they were sitting politely at the door of Jack and Leslie Johnson's, the former Prince George's county (Maryland) executive and his wife, home while she flushed a check down the toilet and hid cash in her underwear.

Are there instances where the cops go overboard and do stupid stuff? Sure. One doesn't have to go further than good 'ol PG County again to find a particularly egregious example. And while there seems to be a pretty big rise in the use of such tactics, some justified and not, incidents like this have forced some jurisdictions to throttle back a bit. But this one a constitutional issue? Doesn't seem like it to me, just regular police work.


The black helicopters with foreign troops are next! Better get all the ammo and guns you can get now!

Eh, I figure I let Snopes give a good summary of this one.
 

gaijin6423

Ask me about ninjas!
Regarding the war zone that our border with Mexico has become, I belong to another site where links to this one are sometimes posted: www.borderlandbeat.com (I should warn you that there are very graphic videos and images to be found there.)

I think, though, that before any agency or administration is called to task for this kind of thing, there will have to be many, many more people who take and pay attention in civics type courses. The vast majority of people in this country dwell in a state of willful ignorance, and woe be to anyone who disrupts it.

I have written my (pre-move to Kentucky) representation on the Hill, and while I received politely worded responses, I'll believe any actions taken when I see them.
 

lowflier03

So no $hit there I was
pilot

Actually the Snopes article is from last year when the word first started spreading about the administration agreeing to convene for this treaty. THe discussion I linked is about the actual meeting of this committee and discusses issues with what the administration is currently doing and is likely to try. Good effort with the easy Snopes link though without actually reading what I linked.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Actually the Snopes article is from last year when the word first started spreading about the administration agreeing to convene for this treaty. THe discussion I linked is about the actual meeting of this committee and discusses issues with what the administration is currently doing and is likely to try. Good effort with the easy Snopes link though without actually reading what I linked.

I did bother to actually read the blog posting/opinion piece, not quite an article since it basically one guys opinion and is riddled with inaccuracies, that you linked and the Snopes link is still quite relevant. The 'article' claims that this supposed 'Small Arms Treaty' would restrict US citizens constitutional rights and override US law, claims that the Snopes piece counters with facts like the one that international treaties cannot supersede the Constitution. And that would be after the Senate would approve said treaty by a 2/3 vote. That'll be right after the the formation of pigs flies by the Capitol dome.

But hey, why let the facts get in the way of a good argument?
 
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