How did you become a Naval Flight Officer

[ltedge46]

I had long wanted to fly and join the Navy but figured my eyes were too bad to be anything but a passenger in a plane until I was in NROTC and found out you can have bad eyes and still fly. I squeaked in under the upper limit for vision for NFOs and haven't looked back since! The bad eyes thing was probably a blessing in disguise since I am not so good with the whole hand eye coordination thing.

Same for me, I figured joining the navy with glasses meant I was destined to drive a boat or be an intel guy. When I failed to select for intel (Archaeology majors are apparantly not sought after for intel jobs, go figure), my recruiter said "what about NFO?" When he told me what an NFO was, I said "sure, why not" and was on my way to OCS. 3 years later I was tracking foriegn subs in the north Pacific. Wouldn't trade the last 16 years for anything.

 

[sundown88]

Same for me, I figured joining the navy with glasses meant I was destined to drive a boat or be an intel guy. When I failed to select for intel (Archaeology majors are apparantly not sought after for intel jobs, go figure), my recruiter said "what about NFO?" When he told me what an NFO was, I said "sure, why not" and was on my way to OCS. 3 years later I was tracking foriegn subs in the north Pacific. Wouldn't trade the last 16 years for anything.

Well said ltedge46!


V/r,

Sundown88

 

[Atreyu098]

For people who NFO may not have been the first choice, are you happy with your current status? Younger guys who went through primary after being NPQ'd, did you end up finding your calling as an NFO? And honestly, did you have those regrets of not being able to fly yourself?

I see a lot of stuff on these forums of a lot of single-anchors bashing what NFOs do, and for someone who got selected pilot from ROTC but then was NPQ'd, it kinda makes me nervous for seeing that stuff. Any one able to offer words of wisdom or their experiences?

 

[sundown88]

For people who NFO may not have been the first choice, are you happy with your current status? Younger guys who went through primary after being NPQ'd, did you end up finding your calling as an NFO? And honestly, did you have those regrets of not being able to fly yourself?

I see a lot of stuff on these forums of a lot of single-anchors bashing what NFOs do, and for someone who got selected pilot from ROTC but then was NPQ'd, it kinda makes me nervous for seeing that stuff. Any one able to offer words of wisdom or their experiences?

From being someone who wants to go NFO over Aviator, and who also has four years prior enlisted experience with the aviation community, I can say without reservation that designator bashing online vs. what happens in "the real world" is honestly night and day.

In the Fleet, what I've observed is that being in the aviation community period, gets you respect. Whether you end up being a Pilot, an NFO, a Flight Surgeon, a Flight Meteorologist, etc., the training and discipline it takes just to get pinned itself is honorable.

So I understand why you're worried Atreyu098, but you have to remember that social media doesn't count. Ever. Nothing said online is ever worth its weight in gold. All of it, for the most part, is just personal opinion. There was a Navy SEAL buddy of mine who was enlisted and I can remember someone giving him flake online for not being an officer when he had a bachelor's and TWO masters degrees. His only reply? Dude, a SEAL is a SEAL.

So Atreyu098... Dude, an Aviator is an Aviator. Whether you're flying the damn thing, planning the mission, or intercepting radio. Everyone has their part to play on the team.


V/r,

Sundown88

 

[ltedge46]

To add to Sundown's post, bashing each other is what we do. It's how we bond as a wardroom. Any pilot who seriously disrespects what an NFO does in the airplane (or vice versa) won't make it very far as an aviator. Giving each other shit for being a lazy stick monkey up front or a "non-flying officer" in the back is our version of talking locker room smack. In reality, if you are on a multi-crewed aircraft you will wind up having a ton of respect for your pilot or NFO. You learn to work together to get the mission done. You learn to rely on each other, the NFO to do his thing, and the pilot to keep you in the air and back down to earth safe.

I never wanted to be a pilot and I get a ton of career satisfaction out of being an NFO. I don't doubt that had I desired to be a single anchor, I would have made it through flight school just as easily and been a fine stick monkey but I quickly learned that my talents were just as well placed spotting bad guys with a camera, launching a harpoon, or keeping a submarine boxed in. Don't worry about NFO/pilot bashing, once you have the wings of gold, you'll be on both sides of it and chances are, you'll go to work every day with a smile on your face.

 

[Renegade One]

From being someone who wants to go NFO over Aviator, and who also has four years prior enlisted experience with the aviation community, I can say without reservation that designator bashing online vs. what happens in "the real world" is honestly night and day.

In the Fleet, what I've observed is that being in the aviation community period, gets you respect. Whether you end up being a Pilot, an NFO, a Flight Surgeon, a Flight Meteorologist, etc., the training and discipline it takes just to get pinned itself is honorable.

So I understand why you're worried Atreyu098, but you have to remember that social media doesn't count. Ever. Nothing said online is ever worth its weight in gold. All of it, for the most part, is just personal opinion. There was a Navy SEAL buddy of mine who was enlisted and I can remember someone giving him flake online for not being an officer when he had a bachelor's and TWO masters degrees. His only reply? Dude, a SEAL is a SEAL.

So Atreyu098... Dude, an Aviator is an Aviator. Whether you're flying the damn thing, planning the mission, or intercepting radio. Everyone has their part to play on the team.


V/r,

Sundown88

Atreyu098: Don't be nervous. Most/ALL of that stuff is friendly bro[sis?]-bashing. Take it in good humor…give as well as you get, and I really doubt you'll feel the heat in any Ready Room you can call your own.

Sundown88 said it very well from his own fleet experience. He's right…

Now…"back in the day" when F-8 Crusader squadrons were transitioning to F-4s…that was a VERY different story in terms of "NFO acceptance/credibility" in the aircraft. Best book on the topic, which explores this dynamic in some detail: "AFTERBURNER: Naval Aviators and the Vietnam War", by John Darrell Sherwood.

P.S.: Sundown88: Tried to send you a PM on my own "NFO decision"…no luck. Was told "cannot initiate a conversation with this person" or some such thing. No sweat…my story isn't that exciting…just too long for the forum. Long story short: "Stumbled into it…just like others."

 

[BusyBee604]

From being someone who wants to go NFO over Aviator, and who also has four years prior enlisted experience with the aviation community, I can say without reservation that designator bashing online vs. what happens in "the real world" is honestly night and day.

First, welcome aboard sundown88, for a 'newbee' applicant you show great insight re: the NFO 'gig'. As a longtime Naval Aviator, I have great respect for the NFO community, and consider them absolutely as equals... no more, no less. To my regret, it wasn't always so. My intro to "double anchors" was in the early '60s, when they were intro'd, and we occasionally bumped into F-4 Phantom NFOs in our Airwing. They were based at Miramar, and we at Lemoore, so we really didn't know them or what their job was. After all, we (A-4 Drivers) didn't need another body in the aircraft to successfully execute our mission. I'm ashamed of the fact that the majority of the single-seat jet-set blew them off as "Imitation Aviators". Having flown in their company, through two of the heaviest of combat deployments in '66-'67, proved us WRONG,

Vietnam proved their worth/value in the cockpit, and their courage under fire, and in POW camps as well. Since then, their relevance has become increasingly recognized to the point that NFOs have gained access to, and serve as Squadron COs, CAGs, deep draft & CVN COs, and all Flag grades. I hereby officially apologize to R1, leader, & to the numerous AW NFO members, and the whole community, for my and my community's "blow offs" of your community, some 5o+ years ago.

P.S. Thinking back, I can recall more than a few dark, rainy nights, leveling off at platform in the goo, fighting vertigo... knowing 'Das Boot' was rockin' and rollin... alone and scared s***less - I COULD HAVE USED SOMEONE TO SHARE THIS FUN WITH, and also to share the blame in the angry LSOs debrief

NFOs, you've have come a long way, Baby!
BzB

In the Fleet, what I've observed is that being in the aviation community period, gets you respect. Whether you end up being a Pilot, an NFO, a Flight Surgeon, a Flight Meteorologist, etc., the training and discipline it takes just to get pinned itself is honorable.

True all that. Very perceptive for a 'newbee', you will do fine. What was your aviation rate/job as a PO3?

BzB

 

[sundown88]

First, welcome aboard sundown88, for a 'newbee' applicant you show great insight re: the NFO 'gig'. As a longtime Naval Aviator, I have great respect for the NFO community, and consider them absolutely as equals... no more, no less. To my regret, it wasn't always so. My intro to "double anchors" was in the early '60s, when they were intro'd, and we occasionally bumped into F-4 Phantom NFOs in our Airwing. They were based at Miramar, and we at Lemoore, so we really didn't know them or what their job was. After all, we (A-4 Drivers) didn't need another body in the aircraft to successfully execute our mission. I'm ashamed of the fact that the majority of the single-seat jet-set blew them off as "Imitation Aviators". Having flown in their company, through two of the heaviest of combat deployments in '66-'67, proved us WRONG,

Vietnam proved their worth/value in the cockpit, and their courage under fire, and in POW camps as well. Since then, their relevance has become increasingly recognized to the point that NFOs have gained access to, and serve as Squadron COs, CAGs, deep draft & CVN COs, and all Flag grades. I hereby officially apologize to R1, leader, & to the bumerous AW NFO members, and the whole community, for my and my community's "blow offs" of your community, some 5o+ years ago.

P.S. Thinking back, I can recall more than a few dark, rainy nights, leveling off at platform in the goo, fighting vertigo... knowing 'Das Boot' was rockin' and rollin... alone and scared s***less - I COULD HAVE USED SOMEONE TO SHARE THIS FUN WITH, and also to share the blame in the angry LSOs debrief

NFOs, you've have come a long way, Baby!
BzB

Someone get this AMAZING sailor here a Drink! HooYah! [~slowly breaks out in a hip hop rendition of Anchors Aweigh~]


V/r,

Sundown88

 

[BusyBee604]

Someone get this AMAZING sailor here a Drink! HooYah! [~slowly breaks out in a hip hop rendition of Anchors Aweigh~]

Only from 'Da Bronix, could 'dis arise! [cue Neh' Yawk accent*]
BzB, CT Yankee

 

[Atreyu098]

Wow, thank you all so much. Honestly a lot of that means a lot to me. I want to do well in whatever I go into and I hope that I can last through the training and get into the aviation community. I am slotted for SNA, and after one last recheck of the eyes I will be transferring my commission to SNFO if it doesn't work out; but at this rate and how helpful a lot of you guys were, makes me realize the aviation community isn't just RUMORED to be the best, but simply is. I spent last summer in Norfolk with the E-2 rag and to my ignorance I was way too preoccupied with learning about what pilots in helos and jets lives were like, little did I realize how awesome the NFOs were. I did get sick in the back and I think everyone thought that was funny, but hell it was my badge of honor. I do enjoy the mission of the NFO, my only, and literally my only gripe with my situation, is that it's hard to last minute change your lifetime path when it was so sure of what it was before.

Regardless, I now know (and slowly have been finding out while scowering these forums) is that aviation uber alles.

 

[sundown88]

Wow, thank you all so much. Honestly a lot of that means a lot to me. I want to do well in whatever I go into and I hope that I can last through the training and get into the aviation community. I am slotted for SNA, and after one last recheck of the eyes I will be transferring my commission to SNFO if it doesn't work out; but at this rate and how helpful a lot of you guys were, makes me realize the aviation community isn't just RUMORED to be the best, but simply is. I spent last summer in Norfolk with the E-2 rag and to my ignorance I was way too preoccupied with learning about what pilots in helos and jets lives were like, little did I realize how awesome the NFOs were. I did get sick in the back and I think everyone thought that was funny, but hell it was my badge of honor. I do enjoy the mission of the NFO, my only, and literally my only gripe with my situation, is that it's hard to last minute change your lifetime path when it was so sure of what it was before.

Regardless, I now know (and slowly have been finding out while scowering these forums) is that aviation uber alles.

Amen brother.

Trust me, I've been there. And believe it or not, I've spent most of my life thus far convincing myself that I would become a successful writer one day (some days I still think what-if), but one thing I've learned in life is it's never over, and maybe the path you choose is supposed to take a detour, you know?


Off topic, but one of my favorite videos of all time is of Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, when he talks about failing in a career. What most people don't know is he spent a majority of his childhood convincing himself that he would be a professional football player one day. Well... that didn't quite pan out, so he made a change.

Great 3 minutes if you have the time to spare: http://www.g4tv.com/videos/57903/wwe-the-rock-talks-failure-in-his-career/


V/r,

Sundown88

 

[Glider3]

First, welcome aboard sundown88, for a 'newbee' applicant you show great insight re: the NFO 'gig'. As a longtime Naval Aviator, I have great respect for the NFO community, and consider them absolutely as equals... no more, no less. To my regret, it wasn't always so. My intro to "double anchors" was in the early '60s, when they were intro'd, and we occasionally bumped into F-4 Phantom NFOs in our Airwing. They were based at Miramar, and we at Lemoore, so we really didn't know them or what their job was. After all, we (A-4 Drivers) didn't need another body in the aircraft to successfully execute our mission. I'm ashamed of the fact that the majority of the single-seat jet-set blew them off as "Imitation Aviators". Having flown in their company, through two of the heaviest of combat deployments in '66-'67, proved us WRONG,

Vietnam proved their worth/value in the cockpit, and their courage under fire, and in POW camps as well. Since then, their relevance has become increasingly recognized to the point that NFOs have gained access to, and serve as Squadron COs, CAGs, deep draft & CVN COs, and all Flag grades. I hereby officially apologize to R1, leader, & to the bumerous AW NFO members, and the whole community, for my and my community's "blow offs" of your community, some 5o+ years ago.

P.S. Thinking back, I can recall more than a few dark, rainy nights, leveling off at platform in the goo, fighting vertigo... knowing 'Das Boot' was rockin' and rollin... alone and scared s***less - I COULD HAVE USED SOMEONE TO SHARE THIS FUN WITH, and also to share the blame in the angry LSOs debrief

NFOs, you've have come a long way, Baby!
BzB


True all that. Very perceptive for a 'newbee', you will do fine. What was your aviation rate/job as a PO3?
View attachment 13222
BzB

Sir, that is one of the best things I have ever read! Thank you!

 

[ltedge46]

This, from my signature line, though not my words.

"Success is getting what you want.
Happiness is wanting what you get."

Counts for the flavor of wings you wear just as much as what platform you select for. In the end, it doesn't matter how you serve, only that you serve.

 

[TAMR]

For people who NFO may not have been the first choice, are you happy with your current status? Younger guys who went through primary after being NPQ'd, did you end up finding your calling as an NFO? And honestly, did you have those regrets of not being able to fly yourself?

I see a lot of stuff on these forums of a lot of single-anchors bashing what NFOs do, and for someone who got selected pilot from ROTC but then was NPQ'd, it kinda makes me nervous for seeing that stuff. Any one able to offer words of wisdom or their experiences?

I'm still in (but almost finished with) NFO primary, so take this with a grain of salt: I'm loving it. I was originally selected pilot, went to OCS and got NAMI'd for an astigmatism. To be honest, I was pretty devastated as I'd been flying civlian for years and had my eyes set on being a Navy Pilot my whole life. There were 4 of us this happened to in my OCS class. I spent some time looking through old AW threads on the subject reading how almost everyone said "you'll get over it, it's still an awesome job" etc to the OP. I didn't know if that was going to be the case at the time, but it sure is now.

Initially, it was a huge pill to swallow at OCS, but thankfully I stuck with it, graduated and got down here to aviation land. We were talking about it the other day in the ready room: most of us were SNA's who got NPQ'd for eyesight; you're in good company. What you come to learn is that there is much more to completing a mission than just the "stick and rudder" aspect. These aren't Cessna's we're flying: they are highly advanced aircraft there to deploy weapons amongst many other things. Simply "flying the plane" isn't the only required task at hand to complete most missions. I only know of one person from primary who dropped because he didn't want to be "taking a backseat" to a pilot; 99.9% of us all get over that complex pretty quickly. I think every SNFO hits a point when they get far enough through flight training that they start feeling like an active crewmember instead of "SA-sucking baggage". You start to see the role an NFO has in the completion of the mission. It's a good feeling.

The other great thing about being an NFO in flight school at least, is that I still get to hand fly all of the time, but are never graded on it (and if you can fly say, an approach well, it's a good way to bump your 4 up to a 5 for grades). All I can say is stick with it man. If you really want to be a pilot then focus on your double anchor, be a shit-hot NFO, and try to get the transition in the fleet. Every once in awhile you get lucky enough to fly with an instructor who flew with WSO's or EWO's in the fleet and can attest to their worth, which really helps build us up. There are a few instructors who give the old "once you realize your pilot wants you, but doesn't need you, you'll be better off" speech, but those are few and far between as most are incredibly supportive.

One or two anchors I don't think it really matters. Pilot's and NFO's learn different skillsets but come together to complete the same mission. In an environment like Naval Aviation people are competitive. You'll probably get as many "Pilot vs FO'" debates as you will "Jets vs Helos", "East Coast vs West" and "In-N-Out vs Whataburger" (though there is no debate; nothing beats in-n-out). Feel free to contact me with any specific questions.

Just remember, anything beats SWO...

 

[Glider3]

Just remember, anything beats SWO...

Nailed it!