Then again, there is the old saying, "Sexy is only a light switch away." Or is that referring to something else??
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Hmm, helos are more involved in combat?
- Thread starter insanebikerboy
- Start date
Then again, there is the old saying, "Sexy is only a light switch away." Or is that referring to something else??
I'm not sure what "L16 enhanced SA" is, but the S and R have L16 and it's displayed in a top down world view on the MPD. Hook the track and it gives you the info. Now how that info is displayed isn't always the easiest to sort through (why does the altitude need to be on the third data page?), but it's all there. You may very well have something better, though. Can you elaborate on the forums?
RadicalDude
Social Justice Warlord
Can't speak to chucks, but rhino SA page is a top down integrated overlay of radar, RWR, interrogator, L16 Surv, and F/F data displayed over a moving map and interlaid with navigational data. It shows you pertinent track file data when you cursor over. And it's searchable.
Wow... Having worked for a CAG deploying with the first HSC/HSM compliment a few years ago - I'll tell you this much: you guys often don't / didn't do a very good job of advocating for yourselves. Accept the fact that CAGs are FW guys and realize that you need to spend resources educating them on your capabilities and more importantly your limitations (yes, you actually have a few...). What we saw from one squadron was a group of "chip on the shoulder" helo dudes who were incredulous to whether or not anyone else in the airwing understood what they did / could do with their new aircraft. The other squadron made the rounds up and down the O-3 level and around mission planning cells at CVW NFL.
Buts that's just another stupid FW guys opinion who doesn't care to listen or reexamine my beliefs....
Now take that same display and overlay emitter data and range rings - you've got a pretty sweet...suite.
LSO, well said. Very well said. Even those squadrons that have operated continuously require patient, consistent education of folks up the food chain. It takes time, incredible patience, professionalism and requires the community to execute at the highest of standards. If we go and do something like skip our brand new aircraft off a lake - all of that is for nothing.
That's pretty much what the Romeo has, minus the moving map. The moving map is supposed to be in the next software update, but that will be a long while (and not everyone has the current update yet).
What's "F/F data?" I'm not recognizing the abbreviation.
Wow... Having worked for a CAG deploying with the first HSC/HSM compliment a few years ago - I'll tell you this much: you guys often don't / didn't do a very good job of advocating for yourselves. Accept the fact that CAGs are FW guys and realize that you need to spend resources educating them on your capabilities and more importantly your limitations (yes, you actually have a few...). What we saw from one squadron was a group of "chip on the shoulder" helo dudes who were incredulous to whether or not anyone else in the airwing understood what they did / could do with their new aircraft. The other squadron made the rounds up and down the O-3 level and around mission planning cells at CVW NFL.
Buts that's just another stupid FW guys opinion who doesn't care to listen or reexamine my beliefs....
Having done several deployments on a Carrier, including the first HS/HSL deployments I can say that it has been tried and oftentimes doesnt matter. We even had a great air ops department trying to work with usand advocate for us. I'm not saying this is everywhere and I'm not saying its only FW that think like that, because there is definitely this same level of ignorance/fear/stupidity in our own upper ranks.... but this is the kind of crap we dealt with.
"I dont care that you have x/y/z capabilities and/or training requirements, you aren't going past 10nm from this boat."
"I dont want the helos leaving this ship, or doing training overland their only job is to provide SAR for my jets."
and my personal favorite
"I dont care that there was a huge national disaster in country x and the boat wants to pull out with only helos on board to do HADR...Those helos are my airwing asset and that boat will not pull out unless it has every aircraft from my airwing on it, not just helos."
Luckily for them another helo squadron actually had a CAG that was understanding enough of capabilities to let his helos go do some good work.
Generally not the ones who are going to get you what you want. My observation was that you need CAG selling YOU to the Admiral.
Where were you? What the CSG's overall posture? Were you the SAR asset?
Our HSC dudes shot themselves in the foot here. They took off for an overland mission with questionable weather and no divert. Ended up landing on some random beach somewhere to get their shit together.
I truly believe AirWing Fallon is where the helo dudes build their rep within the AirWing. There are A LOT of opportunities, especially with some HSM capabilities to make yourselves VERY valuable to a whole host of mission sets. Getting those capabilities explained and demonstrated to SLUIs (and in turn CAG) in that environment goes VERY far once underway.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
[ Devils Advocate ]
Why is it that we (HSL, VAW to a lesser extent) had to sell ourselves to the VFA crowd, but I had to know every weapon, and it's employment, and a bunch of other stuff about "Pointy Nose Shit" but getting a lot of the FAGs (and Queers) to know anything beyond "you do plane guard and bring the CG the mail and pax" about helos or "you have a radar, I think" about VAW is too much to fucking ask.
[ / Devils Advocate who will never be a Helo CAG ]
Why is it that we (HSL, VAW to a lesser extent) had to sell ourselves to the VFA crowd, but I had to know every weapon, and it's employment, and a bunch of other stuff about "Pointy Nose Shit" but getting a lot of the FAGs (and Queers) to know anything beyond "you do plane guard and bring the CG the mail and pax" about helos or "you have a radar, I think" about VAW is too much to fucking ask.
[ / Devils Advocate who will never be a Helo CAG ]
Becaues it's a VFA dominated Airwing - plain and simple. VAQ suffers this to some extent, but we do a good job as a community of selling our capabilities - particularly since they tend to keep VFA folks out of trouble. Play to your audience. Failure to do so may lead to suboptimal results.
That's the most frustrating thing I've seen. Some senior guys will be like "f the fixed wing guys, I'm just gonna sit over here and color". For as much bitching that goes on regarding use or lack thereof of helos, I've always wondered just how much the senior folks were chewing on CAG's/Admiral Staff's ear. It may have been all the time but it wasn't clear to us JO's if that was the case or not.
If this was a common sentiment, you were part of a shitty airwing... I know for a fact the VFA guys know what VAW can and can not do, where you're best, where you're worst, and how to use your assets to employ weapons agains bad guys. I also know for a fact that VAQ guys know very well what you guys can and can not do, where you're best and where you're worst as it applies to MASEX, WASEX, SSC, etc... And I know the VAQ dudes in your particular airwing were solid.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
140 was pretty solid.
HOWEVER the questions I'd get asked by L3/L4 types from VFA (lesser extent, Qs) about basic E2 shit (common to all variants, not HE2K/MCU-ASIS/NU specific) would just make me wonder why I would do more than take off, put the auto pilot on, and nap til recovery.
Again, I had to know way more about VFA shit as a E2 L2 guy than it seemed a VFA guy had to know about VAW/VS/HSL/HS/HSC/HSM combined.
HOWEVER the questions I'd get asked by L3/L4 types from VFA (lesser extent, Qs) about basic E2 shit (common to all variants, not HE2K/MCU-ASIS/NU specific) would just make me wonder why I would do more than take off, put the auto pilot on, and nap til recovery.
Again, I had to know way more about VFA shit as a E2 L2 guy than it seemed a VFA guy had to know about VAW/VS/HSL/HS/HSC/HSM combined.
Speaking of upgrades to helo my wish list is:
1. A Moving Map! It is the most important upgrade and the R/S should have had it for years. It should include DTED to identify terrain, DVOF to identify towers and powerlines, airspace info from DAFIF, and a display of where a countries territorial seas start ( and notification if you will penetrate it soon). Highlight terrain, towers and powerlines that represent a real hazard. The algorithm to decide what is a hazard will take some effort to develop(i.e. in Florida, the land of 100 foot trees, I don't really care about powerlines, even high tension ones. I'm just not going to get that low. In Fallon, on the other hand, there are a few sets of low tension power lines in the middle of no where that will bite you if you are flying on a moonless night and aren't expecting them.) Reference (or just license) current Garmin displays.
2. Synthetic vision. Make the background of the entire PFD the attitude gyro and include an drawing of what you would see outside based on DTED and DVOF. Reference (or just license) current Garmin displays. I realize this may be hard to adapt to the TERF environment. Pilots must be trained to look outside on a dark night and use the display only as a cue for what to look for. Example:
3. Continuously computed aircraft performance numbers. Based on current DA and temp and input aircraft base weight, an expected HOGE torque. Put that as a little dash on the torque gauge. Calculate expected power available. Put another mark on the torque gauge. Display a note if HOGE is not available. Put max sustained AOB limits on attitude indicator based on Ps numbers at current altitude, weight, engine performance, and temp. Put max and min single engine airspeeds on the airspeed indicator. Etc. We have programs on JMPS to do all this. Why can't I see them in the aircraft?
4. Continuously computed HIT checks. Average TOT and torque over a minute and look up in table as I can see if power is dropping over the flight due to salt/sand.
5. Average fuel burn over the last 6 minutes and compute fuel flow. Give estimated fuel at points on a route. Warn if fuel will be below mins at end of route.
6. Head tracking HUD. Can be used to show location of survivors as pushed from RMC on a CSAR. Display current FOV of FLIR to help transitioning between visual and FLIR capture. Draw where the next Fly-to-Point is. Display a set of boxes to show the glide path to a ship. Etc
7. Satellite weather would be nice
I understand that some of these are more valued and likely that some others but they all would be useful and none of them are truly that hard.
1. A Moving Map! It is the most important upgrade and the R/S should have had it for years. It should include DTED to identify terrain, DVOF to identify towers and powerlines, airspace info from DAFIF, and a display of where a countries territorial seas start ( and notification if you will penetrate it soon). Highlight terrain, towers and powerlines that represent a real hazard. The algorithm to decide what is a hazard will take some effort to develop(i.e. in Florida, the land of 100 foot trees, I don't really care about powerlines, even high tension ones. I'm just not going to get that low. In Fallon, on the other hand, there are a few sets of low tension power lines in the middle of no where that will bite you if you are flying on a moonless night and aren't expecting them.) Reference (or just license) current Garmin displays.
2. Synthetic vision. Make the background of the entire PFD the attitude gyro and include an drawing of what you would see outside based on DTED and DVOF. Reference (or just license) current Garmin displays. I realize this may be hard to adapt to the TERF environment. Pilots must be trained to look outside on a dark night and use the display only as a cue for what to look for. Example:
3. Continuously computed aircraft performance numbers. Based on current DA and temp and input aircraft base weight, an expected HOGE torque. Put that as a little dash on the torque gauge. Calculate expected power available. Put another mark on the torque gauge. Display a note if HOGE is not available. Put max sustained AOB limits on attitude indicator based on Ps numbers at current altitude, weight, engine performance, and temp. Put max and min single engine airspeeds on the airspeed indicator. Etc. We have programs on JMPS to do all this. Why can't I see them in the aircraft?
4. Continuously computed HIT checks. Average TOT and torque over a minute and look up in table as I can see if power is dropping over the flight due to salt/sand.
5. Average fuel burn over the last 6 minutes and compute fuel flow. Give estimated fuel at points on a route. Warn if fuel will be below mins at end of route.
6. Head tracking HUD. Can be used to show location of survivors as pushed from RMC on a CSAR. Display current FOV of FLIR to help transitioning between visual and FLIR capture. Draw where the next Fly-to-Point is. Display a set of boxes to show the glide path to a ship. Etc
7. Satellite weather would be nice
I understand that some of these are more valued and likely that some others but they all would be useful and none of them are truly that hard.