Higher Moral Standard?

[mules83]

I’m currently in my last NROTC course which is taught by the senior military officer at the unit (Capt.). The course is called Leadership and Ethics. I am currently working on a paper and the subject is on "Should military officers be held to a higher moral standard?"

I was wondering what you guys have to think about that.

Don't worry, I don't plan on copy and pasting what people say on here, I just want to see different point of views and to see what the overall consensus is.

Oh yeah, and also, this is not in the battlefield, it is back in the states. An example is if you are at a bar (not in uniform), should you not get trashed because you are in the military? It is a bad example, but you get the idea.

 

[jplampy04]

Yes they should they not only lead enlisted people but are the leaders of our military. I know from a personel point of veiw as an enlisted person I do look up to many officers, not all but most. Espically my C.O. not only b/c he is my C.O. but b/c he holds himself to a high standard but not to the point that he is to "high and mighty" to understand life from an enlisted persons point of view. I know when I become an officer I hope to take his leadership values and morals.

 

[DimndDave14]

Your first instinct would to be say "yes, by all means they are leaders of men and women and need to set the example". But you must also remember that they are human so they are foulable. Everyone has a bad day and everyone makes mistakes. You need to look at the crime, how much harm was really done. If the person really is sorry and knows what they did was wrong or just had flagrent disregaurd for the rules and doesnt give two sh*ts

 

[snizo]

I don't think officers should be held to a higher standard because I think everyone should have the same high standards. I do realize that military officers need to pay more attention to those standards than most others because they have more to lose if deemed a 'hypocrite.'

Joe Citizen would be apt to thumb his nose at the law if he saw corrupt police officers - why should Joe abide by the law if the people who enforce the law don't show the proper respect for it? Similarly - how can you lead your division/squad/etc to serve honorably if they see you disrespecting the virtues you are trying to instill in them?

While I'm well aware that this statement sounds naive - I think everyone (military or civilian) should aspire to have the same high levels of integrity and honesty.

DimndDave14 - You don't have to be perfect to have integrity. You just have to be willing to admit when you make a mistake. No one expects you to be right all the time.

 

[TheBubba]

I'm going to go with a straight-up YES (all caps) on this one. Simple as this: How can you tell AN Timmy or ENS Umptyschmuck not to do something like falsify a logbook if you yourself would do something similar?

As for the fallibility of a person, people will screw up. That's to be expected. Where the higher standard comes in is when you do screw up, you have to be able to stand up in front of the old man and say "Sir, I screwed up. I know I screwed up. I've learned X, Y and Z from this." And take your licks gracefully.

A Marine general I know put it this way: "As an officer, you have the special trust of the American people to lead, inspire and look after thier sons, daughters, borthers, sisters wives and husbands. Because of this, you must hold yourselves to a standard of which will not only look favorably upon you, but also the Navy and Marine Corps. Corporal Smith or Seaman Jones will look to, and emulate, you behavior. In order to provide a good example, you must exceed the standard for behavior."

I take his words to heart, and do my best to live be them.

Cheers, Bubba

 

[feddoc]

I'm with TheBubba on this one.

As leaders of young men and women, we owe it to them to be a cut above the average Joe/Jane; it makes us all better in the long run.

Yea, we all make mistakes....but, the manner in which we deal with those mistakes will be noticed---from the young PR to the experienced LT--they will notice.

 

[mules83]

but do our moral standards need to be higher than police officers, ceo of businesses, etc?

 

[eddie]

but do our moral standards need to be higher than police officers, ceo of businesses, etc?

I don't think its a question of comparison to specific others, or even other specific groups.

It's just the general mentality more than something to be quantified. I think.

 

[jamnww]

but do our moral standards need to be higher than police officers, ceo of businesses, etc?

Its not so much that military officers should be held to a higher standard than cops or CEOs but rather that they should be held to X as a high standard. The standard is set independant of what the standard is for the rest of society. If there is an imbalance in the standard then it is up to the rest of society to raise to the high bar that military officers are held to / should be held to.

 

[Fly Navy]

Held to a high standard? Absolutely. You represent the United States 24/7. Not only that, but you are responsible for and to those you are in charge of. No one is morally or ethically perfect, nor can they be, it's not possible. But a military officer should be held to a high standard of morals and ethics. That's the business we are in.

 

[Brett327]

Held to a high standard? Absolutely. You represent the United States 24/7. Not only that, but you are responsible for and to those you are in charge of. No one is morally or ethically perfect, nor can they be, it's not possible. But a military officer should be held to a high standard of morals and ethics. That's the business we are in.

The problem is that people tend to throw out these lofty sounding statements like "higher moral standard" without really stopping to think about what that means in the real world. I don't think that many people would argue that an officer has a special responsibility as a representative of his service and country, as well as bearing the burden of being a role model for his subordinates. How do you operationally define something like that? Everyone is going to have differing ideas of what morality is. With the example of getting drunk in a bar, some people might find this objectionable, but I would argue that getting drunk in and of itself is not a problem as long as you're being responsible about it and not driving or otherwise causing trouble. In fact, in my community, not getting trashed when you're out with the boys is setting a bad example In all seriousness, people are only human and they have to live their lives. Every individual is going to comport themselves as they deem appropriate, and esoteric debates about standards and morality probably deserves to end up with 99% of the other stuff you learn in college - forgotten.

Brett

 

[DanMa1156]

First off, I wholeheartedly agree with Fly and Bubba. Something that Bubba touched on with the USMC General's quotation but otherwise hasn't been mentioned is the American public's perception of the U.S. Military. The military can be the love of the nation or, unfortunately, the hatred thereof. The American Soldier, Airman, Sailor, Marine, and Coast Guardsmen have a unique romantic characteristic to the American people, which, whether or not we like it, is something that probably should be maintained if we want to be effective warfighters. The reason I say this is if the American people do not believe in the American military, they are less likely to support it to win wars, whether on the morale front, the political front, or any support otherwise involved. Why are they making a big deal out of the rape scandals at USAFA as opposed to say Joe Schmoe State U.? The reason is because the American people look up to the military to be honest and maintain a level of integrity above and beyond what is normally expected. I wish I could word this all better -- but basically, much of the support of the American people comes from the fact that they view the military as an elite, highly professional, and ethical organization. Why? We don't want lying maniacs covering up all they do in our wars. My $.02

 

[Thisguy]

Moral standards or not, it bothers me when Officers get away with stuff that the troops get hammered for. For example:

One of the squadron COs rolled in off liberty the last day of port at 0200 when liberty expired at 2359 (like every other port), his excuse to CAG was that he "didn't know when liberty expired." If an E-3 pulled a stunt like this, you can bet your ass he won't see the beach the next port.

Our MMCO (CWO2) got caught by NMCI looking at porn. Twice. Nothing happened to him.

If we're held to a high standard, shouldn't we suffer the consequences?

 

[TheBubba]

Moral standards or not, it bothers me when Officers get away with stuff that the troops get hammered for...

If we're held to a high standard, shouldn't we suffer the consequences?

To answer your question, yeah. In the case you mentioned about the CO not knowing when libo expired... inexcuseable. He should have suffered the appropriate consequences, and the same with the CWO you mentioned.

What's it going to look like to AN Timmy when he get the hammer and the anvil for showing up at 0100 when libo expired at 2359, and his O-5 CO get a "hey... be careful next time" for showing up at 0200? Serious WTF there.

Being held to a standard inherently means you get what you earn... you screw up, you take your licks. You do well and exceed it, you get rewarded.

 

[pennst8]

but do our moral standards need to be higher than police officers, ceo of businesses, etc?

Yes. Police Officers, CEOs, etc don't have the jobs that involve killing people and breaking things for the state. There's an awful lot of destructive at the fingertips of those involved in commanding a ship, aircraft, etc.

At the same time, Naval Officers are trusted with the lives of America's sons and daughters. If their officers are unethical, how can we expect sailors to trust that the right decisions are being made? How can we expect citizens to send their sons and daughters to serve in the Navy? I don't think it would work if they thought Naval Officers weren't a cut above the rest in regards to ethical and moral behavior.

(BTW... I'm in the same class. 2 Hour lectures rule.)