I sustained a concusion and skull fracture when I was 2 years old. After 2 days of observation in the hospital I was released. Since then I have had no neuro/physical deficits, nor have I been treated for any related medical reasons. I have passed the MEPS and have been accepted for OCS with a pilot slot, although out of curiosity I emailed NOMI about the incident because I have heard that concusions are usually grounds for NPQ'ing aviation cannidates. An individual at NOMI emailed back with expressed concern and recommened applying for a wavier. Does anyone know a flight surgeon or a staff member at NOMI that could tell me what to include in this wavier application to get an acceptance? I am now 25 years old, so this accident happened 23 years ago. Therefore, I strongly feel they will accept the wavier if someone credible can inform me of the correct way to avoid a NPQ based off this. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Help with NOMI wavier
- Thread starter tingley
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I realize that NOMI doesnt have the time or the money to go around digging up very old med records such as this one. The thing is, they dont have to dig up anything because it's right there in my MEPS physical paperwork, which I'm sure follows me to OCS and API. MEPS gave me the go on it for OCS, but I'm not sure that NOMI would give me the ok for aviation. I have spoke with previous navy pilots who said they saw some people getting NPQ'd at AOCS for minor head injuries. I will admit, it was stupid of myself to tell them at MEPS of this, but I didnt think it would be a big deal since it happened so long ago. Since I cannot erase what is on my MEPS records I'm trying to deal with the problem that I have created. Thanks for the advice, "admit nothing, deny everything, make counter accusations," although it is a bit after the fact. I'm going to need a wavier when I show up to API, so my question is to those that have gone through the wavier process. How do you go about getting one? Since I have already been accepted my recruiter is not much help.
tingley-
understood…your situation is probably unnerving. I’m not sure how you get a waiver at this point. If I were in your shoes, I would go to a specialist before reporting to OCS. You could ask the guy to evaluate your condition and write a letter stating whether or not there is any medical reason or concern which would interfere with your ability to work as a pilot. Take the letter with you to OCS as your ‘ace in the hole’ in case anyone tries to give you shit.
understood…your situation is probably unnerving. I’m not sure how you get a waiver at this point. If I were in your shoes, I would go to a specialist before reporting to OCS. You could ask the guy to evaluate your condition and write a letter stating whether or not there is any medical reason or concern which would interfere with your ability to work as a pilot. Take the letter with you to OCS as your ‘ace in the hole’ in case anyone tries to give you shit.
Okay, here's the best link I could find at NOMI:
http://www.nomi.med.navy.mil/Nami/WaiverGuideTopics/neurology.htm#Traumatic_Brain_injM
Obviously you know your specifics, and can figure out where you fall in line w/ the waiver guide. Part of the problem you'll have is that NOMI, generally, doesn't...well...help you. No wait, what I mean to say is...at all. No wait...what I mean is that they don't usually do the examination for a waiver unless you are at one of their commands (if you lived in P'cola, for instance). They also don't really care what a civilian doctor says, so you will have to be seen by a Navy doc somehow (which is certainly possible...or another service doc would probably work).
Once you have the paper work that says you should be good to go, then you have to send that off with a waiver request to NOMI. Once that's sent off, they review it, then send their recommendation on to BUMED and then BUPERS. Whatever NOMI says is what's going to happen, no one is going to overrule them. If you have already talked w/ someone at NOMI, I'm curious who he was.
Pretty much those guys are some kind of specialist, so if he wasn't a specialist, he may have just wanted to "probe" you cause that's what they do. You could ask him for the name and number of the head trama specialist there.
Interestingly enough, one of the HAC's on my Det just got back up from a 12 month down time due to loss of consciousness (sp?). He doesn't know how long he was LOC, because he crashed up his bike, and then came back to his friend and didn't even remember anything. Of course, he has his wings already, it's a bit different.
Hope that helps you off to start. Obviously the key there was to not say anything, but what's done is done.
http://www.nomi.med.navy.mil/Nami/WaiverGuideTopics/neurology.htm#Traumatic_Brain_injM
Obviously you know your specifics, and can figure out where you fall in line w/ the waiver guide. Part of the problem you'll have is that NOMI, generally, doesn't...well...help you. No wait, what I mean to say is...at all. No wait...what I mean is that they don't usually do the examination for a waiver unless you are at one of their commands (if you lived in P'cola, for instance). They also don't really care what a civilian doctor says, so you will have to be seen by a Navy doc somehow (which is certainly possible...or another service doc would probably work).
Once you have the paper work that says you should be good to go, then you have to send that off with a waiver request to NOMI. Once that's sent off, they review it, then send their recommendation on to BUMED and then BUPERS. Whatever NOMI says is what's going to happen, no one is going to overrule them. If you have already talked w/ someone at NOMI, I'm curious who he was.
Pretty much those guys are some kind of specialist, so if he wasn't a specialist, he may have just wanted to "probe" you cause that's what they do. You could ask him for the name and number of the head trama specialist there.
Interestingly enough, one of the HAC's on my Det just got back up from a 12 month down time due to loss of consciousness (sp?). He doesn't know how long he was LOC, because he crashed up his bike, and then came back to his friend and didn't even remember anything. Of course, he has his wings already, it's a bit different.
Hope that helps you off to start. Obviously the key there was to not say anything, but what's done is done.
Tingley..I wouldnt worry too much about pursuing a waiver right now. If your already qualified then theres nothing to get a waiver for. Dont feel too bad about admitting it though. I was in a similar situation and I admitted to an injury i had and nothing really came of it. I think that lying outright isnt the best way to start a career as a navy officer. Be sure to check out the NOMI websight. They list everything down to the last detail on what conditions are disqualifing or not. Find out exactly what you have in your medical history, compair it to what the navys standards are,a nd then go to a civilian specialist and have him/her say that you are good to go. then if it ever comes up you can use that to support your case.
good luck everyone
good luck everyone
Gatordev, Hartman, Corsair, thanks for the input. Cunninglinguist, -have fun making porn on the side of your navy career. Gatordev- I recently contacted a neurologist flight surgeon from NOMI via some email which is anonymous, and he said I am going to require a wavier with the API physical. He also said it's safe to say that it will pass go with a detailed neuro exam, since it occured so long ago.
I guess I cant take care of anything prior to OCS, which is what I was trying to solve. I'm going to have to get used to waiting around since it is the military. Anyway, thanks for help guys.
I guess I cant take care of anything prior to OCS, which is what I was trying to solve. I'm going to have to get used to waiting around since it is the military. Anyway, thanks for help guys.
Tingley:
I'm not sure I buy that. I bet you could probably get it started before you report. Your API physical is not the time you want to start chasing paper around, because you'll just around and get a butt boy job. Just because you aren't in the service, doesn't mean you can't use their medical service, there is a way to get prior permission since I imagine they'd require a Navy doc to authorize it. Obviously it's up to you. Not sure if you checked that link, but it's a pretty good resource to see where you fall in line.
If you have an opportunity, I'd try and get ahead of the game as much as you can...if you are going to persue the waiver that is. Otherwise, you may just not want to say anything else till the time comes and see where it takes you, just kind of a pain. Once you are sworn in as an Ensign, you're committed, regardless of what community that might be.
I'm saying all this just because I've had to fight an uphill 2 year long battle w/ NOMI, so I'm giving you first hand info. They're not there to speed you through the process, especially if you don't have an intermidiary to help you along. That said, hopefully it's a non-issue, like the guy said.
I'm not sure I buy that. I bet you could probably get it started before you report. Your API physical is not the time you want to start chasing paper around, because you'll just around and get a butt boy job. Just because you aren't in the service, doesn't mean you can't use their medical service, there is a way to get prior permission since I imagine they'd require a Navy doc to authorize it. Obviously it's up to you. Not sure if you checked that link, but it's a pretty good resource to see where you fall in line.
If you have an opportunity, I'd try and get ahead of the game as much as you can...if you are going to persue the waiver that is. Otherwise, you may just not want to say anything else till the time comes and see where it takes you, just kind of a pain. Once you are sworn in as an Ensign, you're committed, regardless of what community that might be.
I'm saying all this just because I've had to fight an uphill 2 year long battle w/ NOMI, so I'm giving you first hand info. They're not there to speed you through the process, especially if you don't have an intermidiary to help you along. That said, hopefully it's a non-issue, like the guy said.
Gatordev,
Again, thanks for your help. I would like to start pursuing this wavier now, although access to a naval flight surgeon for a detailed neuro exam doesnt seem all that practical right now. In the email that I recieved from the NOMI neuro doc, he said that it wouldnt even be worth my time or money to have this exam done privately. I guess technically speaking I am navy personal on inactive duty, so maybe they could schedule me in somehow. If I knew a way to get scheduled for the exam by a NAMI personal prior to arriving to OCS, trust me, I would take care of it. By the looks of the NOMI head trauma website I should be fine for the wavier to be accepted, it will just be a matter of waiting for it to pass. Do you think it's possible for me to have a flight surgeon give me this exam somewhere here in northren california? If so, I think it's definately worth my time because the cost should be comming from the navy.
Again, thanks for your help. I would like to start pursuing this wavier now, although access to a naval flight surgeon for a detailed neuro exam doesnt seem all that practical right now. In the email that I recieved from the NOMI neuro doc, he said that it wouldnt even be worth my time or money to have this exam done privately. I guess technically speaking I am navy personal on inactive duty, so maybe they could schedule me in somehow. If I knew a way to get scheduled for the exam by a NAMI personal prior to arriving to OCS, trust me, I would take care of it. By the looks of the NOMI head trauma website I should be fine for the wavier to be accepted, it will just be a matter of waiting for it to pass. Do you think it's possible for me to have a flight surgeon give me this exam somewhere here in northren california? If so, I think it's definately worth my time because the cost should be comming from the navy.
Well, I don't think a flight doc is going to cover it. I think you're going to need a neuro doc to satisfy NOMI. Now whether that's an actual NOMI doc or a doc at a Navy (or military) hospital may not matter. I think what needs to happen is that you need to contact someone at NOMI and figure out what exactly they want.
Here's a question for you, are you in school now? If so, where? Is there a NROTC unit on campus? If there is, you might want to think about going and talking w/ the person who handles their commissioning physicals, just to get some guidance. It probably won't be one of the officers, but one of the secretaries instead. You could explain that you are already accepted, but you expect a hiccup along the way, and are just trying to get some info. They may not be the most helpful at first, since you are creating extra work for them, but if they understand you're just looking for info, they may be helpful. I know our GS (who was also a nurse) had a direct line to one of the GS's there at NOMI, and she could get the straight skinny on what was happening. Was a nice bit of intel when the docs were dicking me around.
Understand, I am NOT a doc, nor do I know the in's and out's of NOMI, just giving some thoughts based on my very long ordeal w/ them. Your milage may vary...and hopefully for the better
Here's a question for you, are you in school now? If so, where? Is there a NROTC unit on campus? If there is, you might want to think about going and talking w/ the person who handles their commissioning physicals, just to get some guidance. It probably won't be one of the officers, but one of the secretaries instead. You could explain that you are already accepted, but you expect a hiccup along the way, and are just trying to get some info. They may not be the most helpful at first, since you are creating extra work for them, but if they understand you're just looking for info, they may be helpful. I know our GS (who was also a nurse) had a direct line to one of the GS's there at NOMI, and she could get the straight skinny on what was happening. Was a nice bit of intel when the docs were dicking me around.
Understand, I am NOT a doc, nor do I know the in's and out's of NOMI, just giving some thoughts based on my very long ordeal w/ them. Your milage may vary...and hopefully for the better
quote:
navy my ass..
hope you learned something here. having integrity is one thing, but you have to know when to keep your mouth shut. they're gonna have fun with you at ocs, kid...
Well, yeah, I think we covered that already...but since he said it's already in a Navy record, might as well make it as quick as possible.
navy my ass..
hope you learned something here. having integrity is one thing, but you have to know when to keep your mouth shut. they're gonna have fun with you at ocs, kid...
Well, yeah, I think we covered that already...but since he said it's already in a Navy record, might as well make it as quick as possible.
I'm onboard with the notion that you must have been suffering some sort of neural disorder to contact NOMI and solicit such information, but its too late for that... From personal experience: maintain through out the process that you did not lose consiousness (sp?) and that if you had amnesia etc, it was for less than 5-10 minutes. One of those numbers is golden, can't remember which it is. I'll try to dig up some paperwork and find out.
Naval Aviator, Prowlers.
Naval Aviator, Prowlers.
It seems that I´ve been misunderstood once again. I contacted NOMI regarding my question at hand. I´m assuming that my explainations arent clear enough for some people, because some are under the impression that I added more medical history to my charts after the MEPS physical took place, which is definately not the case. In addition, when I contacted NOMI it was on an annonymous basis, via phone and other email addresses. They didnt even care who I was, they just answered my question and told me what one would do given my circumstances. Even if they did ask for my identity I would of gave it since MEPS already acquired the info long ago. Me giving it to MEPS was a mistake, I will admit, but I did´nt think that 22 years ago would make any difference. With this post topic I just thought I would get the ball rolling with a wavier beforehand to cut down on the waiting process. To those of you helping with info thanks, for it is the point of the website.... right??? Thanks Gatordev for hearing me out.
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