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Help for Nuke son

Bevo16

Registered User
pilot
Bevo, the a-school and power school taught in Orlando was a world of difference than what it is in Goose Creek. Not saying your experience doesn't matter, but the method of teaching and the instructor/student teaching relationship is much better and much different than what it was before.

That's good news. The fiscal year that I was there, NNPS had 240 suicide attempts with an average student body around 2000. You had about a 30% chance of graduating and about 12% chance of trying to kill yourself before you left. My section in power school started with 35, graduated 7, had 15 suicide attempts and 2 deaths. It was hell, and if I ever see Senior Chief Tree with his dumb-ass flat top, I still owe that guy a beat-down for the evil shit he pulled. That guy made it his mission to break the students in 9701 Section 7, and he was successful.

Something had to change, and I'm glad that they have used their change in location to fix some of the problems they had.
 

cj62

New Member
I just want to thank everyone for their input. Everyone's post helped in some kind of manner. I am forever grateful to this site and those that answered. Thanks again!!
 

navy8rdad

Active Member
Just read your post asking for help. I am the father of a student naval aviator who should earn his wings in about two months. I am also the father of another son who attended nuke school about a year ago but was dropped from the program for academic reasons.

You don’t indicate how far along he is but my advice, the same advice I gave my son who struggled was to keep trying no matter what and make sure they know you want to be in the navy. It is entirely possible that he just is not cut out for nuke service but if he finishes A school and they know he wants to stay in they will most likely give him the option – they did with my son anyway. He was allowed to keep his E-4 rating and then transferred to the fleet.

You might find this site useful but I strongly suggest you read several posts and the accompanied threads before posting anything.

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/board,44.0.html

Paul Harvey moment – son number two never made it to the fleet. On his last weekend at Goose Creek while living in a barracks for fleet transition sailors he made a VERY stupid decision to partake in the use of a prohibited substance (SPICE) , got caught and was given an other than honorable discharge. Game over!

My wife’s reaction was similar to yours but you have to realize that despite the fact that the navy is over manned they constantly need new bodies and minds to replace those who attrite or retire and they need to find the BEST. When your job is to win the war, will or desire to be the best just won’t cut it. Recruiters need to sign up as many qualified recruits as the navy tells them they need at a particular time knowing that some will never make it. That is just the way it is, and has to be. If you have some time you might lurk about on this site and learn how many qualified studs get cut from flight school for no other good reason than the navy just does not need as many pilots at the moment than they thought they would. These are guys who spent years dreaming of flying, four or five years in college, made it to primary, flew, then at some point got cut. It happens every day.

For your son I would say first that he should keep working as hard as he can, get as far as he can and if he does not make it all the way, which he very possibly will, make the best of whatever presents itself at that time. If it turns out that remaining in the navy is not an option he can always come home and find a job for a year or two, save EVERY dime, and pay his own way through school. That is what my son did and he is now living on his own, going to school full time and getting very respectable grades.

Make no mistake, nuke school is hard by design, you would not want it any other way. When dealing with nuclear reactors there is ZERO room for error. When is the last time you heard about a US navy nuclear accident. At the risk of earning a ribbon for suck up of the day I would venture to say that navy nukes and navy pilots ( all communities ) are the finest, most professional people this country has to offer. Just like this country, the Navy ( and Marine Corp ) might not be perfect but it’s better than any other military organization this or any other country has to offer.
 

Bevo16

Registered User
pilot
I spoke to the young lad for half an hour last night. He has a GREAT attitude and is very motivated for success.

I will admit that it was just a little bit weird, because it was like talking to a 19 year old version of myself from back in 1997. Straight A high school student, varsity athlete, high graduation rank, highly motivated to be in the Navy, but in the nuke program because he wanted to "be the best" and that's where the recruiter pointed him. The similar things didn't end there, but just that much alone was enough to help me identify with him.

Honestly, I think that he will be fine academically. He is clearly very bright, and is struggling more with the stress of the program and the pace than the coursework. He is studying more hours than what he is assigned, so that is going to look good for him no matter what. I let him know just how key getting through A school and getting that 3rd class crow is, and that he is playing with house money after that.

No matter what, he is going to be a really good sailor for us. If we could clone his attitude and transplant it into every sailor out there, we would not have any problems.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
I just wanted to confirm what Bevo said. I am a Sub Officer and went through the pipeline in '08. While the attrition rate is more like 10-15%, flunking nuke school does not necessarily spell the end of your son's Naval career. As long as he keeps his nose clean and works hard, he will likely have the ability to continue in the Navy, even if he comes in at under 2.50. And quite honestly, foregoing permanent 3 section duty and 100+ hour work weeks no matter what phase of ops the boat is in probably won't be the worst thing in the world for him.

Also, your son's recruiter may not have lied to him per se. Recruiters come from all over the Navy in many different rates, and their job is to put people in the Navy. If his recruiter wasn't a nuke, he may have just been rattling off the pamphlet of perks without even knowing what it is actually like to serve in a nuclear billet. If he was a nuke, he probably focused on the perks instead of the negatives. It's akin to bragging about a car's high gas mileage while conveniently ignoring the paltry horsepower it carries to obtain it.
 

feddoc

Really old guy
Contributor
At one point in my enlisted career, I was like your son. I did some testing and the recruiter (btw, my recruiter never lied; I just didn't ask enough questions...although I regret nothing) said that I could choose my field, including the nuke field. I chose electronics instead. I darn near flunked out just as your son appears to be. I was struggling in class and performing poorly. I was fortunate in that those above me were very, very supportive and provided me with some time off ( I painted barracks rooms for a week) to clear my head. I eventually went back and finished third out of about 50 guys.

Your boy is smart, very smart. As you know, he wouldn't have been selected if the nuke program didn't believe in him. It sounds like, with his staying late and getting one on one help, that his command is doing what they can to help him out. I hope he succeeds.


Thank you for the encouragaing words. He is staying late to study and getting one on one help. I have told him over and over to hang in there....things will get better. But how do I encourage him when the folks there are telling him they will send him home? He is constantly told that and it may be a ploy to get him to try harder, but the stress it is causing is really being a hazard to him trying harder. Maybe things aren't as bad as I perceive them to be....I am not there. It's vry difficult for me as amom to hear the anxiety in his voice. He doesn't want to be sent home. We are just trying to figure out an option if he does flunk out. Thanks again.
 

feddoc

Really old guy
Contributor
I spoke to the young lad for half an hour last night. He has a GREAT attitude and is very motivated for success.

I will admit that it was just a little bit weird, because it was like talking to a 19 year old version of myself from back in 1997. Straight A high school student, varsity athlete, high graduation rank, highly motivated to be in the Navy, but in the nuke program because he wanted to "be the best" and that's where the recruiter pointed him. The similar things didn't end there, but just that much alone was enough to help me identify with him.

Honestly, I think that he will be fine academically. He is clearly very bright, and is struggling more with the stress of the program and the pace than the coursework. He is studying more hours than what he is assigned, so that is going to look good for him no matter what. I let him know just how key getting through A school and getting that 3rd class crow is, and that he is playing with house money after that.

No matter what, he is going to be a really good sailor for us. If we could clone his attitude and transplant it into every sailor out there, we would not have any problems.


Good on you for taking time to help this kid.
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
I looked up my Power School graduating GPA, 2.75, and I have had really good career, so tell him to keep working hard.

when I went to power school the minimum GPA was 2.5, the motto in the pipeline was 2.5 to stay alive.
 

phrogpilot73

Well-Known Member
I looked up my Power School graduating GPA, 2.75, and I have had really good career, so tell him to keep working hard.

when I went to power school the minimum GPA was 2.5, the motto in the pipeline was 2.5 to stay alive.
For what it's worth, I had a 1.96 GPA in high school and a 1200 SAT.

I graduated with a 2.65 from the US Naval Academy (after 4 applications) and have a degree in Computer Science. Based on what bevo said, I think the kid needs to press. Attitude means more than he thinks it does...

Every year they publish the statistics of the entering class. I was the guy that was in the 5th/5th...
 
cj62,

Your son is where I was in 1997. I had walked into the recruiter's office saying that "I want to join the Navy." When asked what I wanted to do, I replied "What is the best you have?" I bought the recruiter's line about how the "best of the best" go into the nuke program. After hearing all of the promises about accelerated advancement and financial bonuses, I was sold. I did not have a strong math and physics background in high school, and I also only passed the test by a few points. Still, I was in and reported to Nuke School in September of 1996 back when it was still in Orlando. The gate guard was a former student who had flunked out and he knew we were fresh from boot camp. His "welcome to hell" as he checked each of our ID's was not exactly what we were expecting to hear, but was the most accurate thing I heard while I was on that base.

I was slated to go through MM "A" school first and did pretty well for the most part. All of my grades were around average, except for the 2nd Math test and the "Mechanical Equipment" final which was basically a thermodynamics primer. Still, I passed and went on to Power School. That is when things got really bad. I will tell you that the claims by some of my partners here that the only people who fail out are those that really aren't trying, are bullshit. Also the claim that anyone who get is in "has what it takes" to graduate is also bullshit. That program has a historic failure rate well over 60%. If everyone who shows up there really has what it takes to complete the course, then they must have the worst set of evaluation standards of any school in the world.

My grades were so bad that I didn't even get an academic review board at week 5. I was what was called an "auto-drop" and that was just fine by me. In spite of studying more than 50 hours a week AFTER class, I just could not keep up with the pace of the coursework. (I've since proven that I'm not stupid, being an Academic All-Big XII football player at Texas, and current Naval Officer, Aviator, and Aircraft Commander).

I know exactly how your son feels right now, and he is NOT stupid. He is being told now that if he fails out that he will spend the rest of his career chipping paint and cleaning bathrooms. That is not the case. Failing out of Nuke school does not mean that you are stupid or lazy, it means that you don't have the personality to be a nuke. 95% of the Navy views that as a GOOD THING!! Your son is a talented young man or he would not have gotten into Nuke School. Not completing that course is not the end of the world, his career, or his chances of success in the Navy.

After I flunked out, I went to submarine school in Groton, CT to be a conventional Machinist Mate. There, I took the SAT and the math that I had learned while in the process of flunking out of Nuke School enabled me to log a very impressive score on that exam. Before I knew it, I had letters of interest from the ROTC program, Naval Academy, BOOST and NAPS all in my mail box and I was filling out applications to officer programs like it was my full time job. I was fortunate to have another "nuke waste" officer take me under his wing and after I was accepted into the ROTC program at Texas, it was my full time job to help other sailors apply for officer programs. In just 7 months, I helped more than ten other nuke school "failures" get accepted into officer programs and they all picked up full scholarships.

If you or your son would like to talk with me about my experiences there, just send me a PM with phone numbers and I will will reach out to you or them.

My "drop sheet" from nuke school is in the same frame as my officer's commissioning documents. I keep it like that to show that one failure does not mean that you quit, or that others will quit on you. Sometimes a "failure" is just a fork in the road and you end up going down a much better path. My life is 1000X better now than it ever would have been if I had passed that school.

OBTW, my mom was just like you. She chewed the recruiter out for putting me into something that was such a poor fit for me just because he had a quota. Looking back, I don't blame him. She was also a high school teacher and always welcomed Navy Recruiters to talk in her class, on the condition that they were not allowed to mention the Nuclear Power Program at Louise High School. I do, however, blame the officers at Navy Recruiting Command who do such a poor job of allowing recruiters to explain what jobs in the Navy are like and what will be expected of them. The end result is a lot of trouble from struggling kids who are trying to do their best in positions that don't suit them. Many get bitter about the Navy and leave as soon as they can. Don't let him get bitter, encourage him to get BETTER. There is someone out there or at his next duty station that will help him as long as he is willing to help himself.

I'm on the verge of flunking out of A-school at NNPTC despite all the extra effort I'm putting in. When you were on the verge of flunking out of nuke school, how did you cope with it as you waited for them to finally drop you?
 

KilroyUSN

Prior EM1(SS) - LTJG - VP P-8 NFO COTAC
None
Don't worry about the things you can't control. Most the time the staff recognizes those who work their asses off and will usually give them a little more slack (this was my case).
Once you get to power school and beyond, the level of rote memorization decreases significantly and more people care about your ability to understand what is going on and your work ethics.

In the end, if you flunk out, they will send you to do something else great in the navy and you will be a superstar compared to the majority of the individuals you will find you are working with.
It is by no means the end of your chances to succeed inside/outside of the navy. For what it is worth, I have heard of nuke dropouts who were selected for STA-21 as an un-designated seaman.

Keep your nose in the book, do more work than any of your peers, sleep, and don't sweat what you can't control.
Whatever path you find yourself in, do the best you can, and try to look for any opportunities that open their door to you.
 

feddoc

Really old guy
Contributor
I'm on the verge of flunking out of A-school at NNPTC despite all the extra effort I'm putting in. When you were on the verge of flunking out of nuke school, how did you cope with it as you waited for them to finally drop you?
I almost flunked out of my A school in Millington. What KilroyUSN says (especially) in his first paragraph is the truth. And it is exactly what happened to me. The staff knew I was busting my butt and subsequently gave me some help, both after class and after hours. I eventually graduated 3rd in my class and moved on from there. Control what you can and do the very best job you can. Good luck.
 
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