Helo EPs for FW Types

[MAKE VAPES]

Fixed wing dude here, just for my own education... what the hell do you attempt to do when the ass end of the aircraft doesn't work anymore... How do you do anything but gyroscopically auger in? Does more power or blade bite make the gyroscoping worse? Clueless and never thought to ask....

 

[Lawman]

Fixed wing dude here, just for my own education... what the hell do you attempt to do when the ass end of the aircraft doesn't work anymore... How do you do anything but gyroscopically auger in? Does more power or blade bite make the gyroscoping worse? Clueless and never thought to ask....

In a hover..... pray.

There is a video that the Army uses for training purposes of an Apache doing a run on landing with no tail rotor and the crew being fine. He had good air speed though so not to loose total authority with the vertical stab. I think they said he touched down up in the 100+ knots.

 

[Bevo16]

Fixed wing dude here, just for my own education... what the hell do you attempt to do when the ass end of the aircraft doesn't work anymore... How do you do anything but gyroscopically auger in? Does more power or blade bite make the gyroscoping worse? Clueless and never thought to ask....

Vapes,

The emergency procedure for loss of tail rotor drive is different depending on your altitude.

If you have enough altitude to get into a auto-rotation profile, then that's what you do.

Lowering the collective full down reduces the pitch of the rotor blades which means that no torque is being transfered from the gear box to the blades, the air flow upward through the rotor system is what drives the blades. No torque means no need for counter-torque (tail rotor). During the auto, you kill the engines (because if you re-couple the engines, you are creating torque again and will be back on spin-cycle). At the bottom of the auto, you flare to build additional kinetic energy in the rotor system and then begin to pull collective. Pulling collective increases the pitch of the blades creating lift (and keeps you from plowing into the ground at several thousand FPM). You are not going to spin at the bottom because you are not converting torque to lift (no energy going into the gear box from the engines), you are converting kinetic energy to lift.

The most dangerous flight regime to lose the tail rotor is low speed, low altitude, high torque. This is because there is not enough energy and time to get into a good auto, and because you are at a high torque setting you are going to spin like a MF as soon as the tail rotor lets go.

If this happens, you basically just dump the collective, pull the PCL's (to kill the engines), try to keep it level, and cushion the landing. If you lose the TR low slow and high torque, you are going to crash. It's just a matter of trying to make it as soft as possible so you can (hopefully) walk away.

 

[exhelodrvr]

Fixed wing dude here, just for my own education... what the hell do you attempt to do when the ass end of the aircraft doesn't work anymore... How do you do anything but gyroscopically auger in? Does more power or blade bite make the gyroscoping worse? Clueless and never thought to ask....

For H-3s:
A lot depends on whether it is a complete failure of the tail rotor, or just a failure of the tail rotor controls.

If the controls are "jammed", you have to work around the pitch the tail rotor is set at when the problem occurs. If in a hover, you land (with a slight rotation as you're touching down). If in forward flight, figure out the torque where you are in a balanced (relative to the airframe, not the mental state of the aircrew) condition, and plan your approach so that pulling in power at the bottom aligns the aircraft with the runway.

If a control cable is separated, the rotor will go to a preset "intermediate" pitch, and you treat it the same as "jammed" controls. If this happens in a hover, depending on your the torque at the time, this is almost as bad as a complete failure of the tail rotor.

If there is a complete failure of the tail rotor, you lower the collective, shut the engines off immediately and land. (If you don't get the collective down right away, you go completely uncontrolled almost immediately.) Depending on your altitude, you can turn the aircraft to align the flight path with the nose. The higher the speed when the failure occurs, the more control you will have. Oh, yeah. "Cushion" at the bottom.

 

[teabag53]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There is a decent video of an Isreali (I think) 53D conducting externals when it's tail rotor departs the aircraft. This demonstrates the 'Y.F.' component pretty well regarding the tail rotor departing the aircraft in a regime where you can't really enter an autorotative profile. I'm down for You Tube right now but it's easy to find.

 

[HokiePilot]

BTW, losing the tail rotor in a -60 will cause the nose to break right, not left.

 

[exhelodrvr]

BTW, losing the tail rotor in a -60 will cause the nose to break right, not left.

Does the nose tuck?

How about with blade stall?

 

[MIDNJAC]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There is a decent video of an Isreali (I think) 53D conducting externals when it's tail rotor departs the aircraft. This demonstrates the 'Y.F.' component pretty well regarding the tail rotor departing the aircraft in a regime where you can't really enter an autorotative profile. I'm down for You Tube right now but it's easy to find.

Link:

 

[Coota0]

Since most of the helo's in the military have Joes in the back that'd be kinda a crappy deal to put rocket chairs in them.

I still love the conversations we have at B Co about who wants to select what. Apaches and Hawks are like rival frat houses that will tell you all about why the other ones gay, 47's are like your non-discriminating friend who is willing to take the fat girl home early, and then there are the scout people.... and we're the crazy ones. Because, as our Cadre (apache) put it, "Its a bitchen mission, but I know more dead 58 guys than anybody else." No Armor, Single Engine, and a flight profile that draws fire.... Sign my ass up.

The target is marked with a flaming kiowa.

 

[Birdog8585]

Pilot gets pulled from the wreckage all to be carried off on a litter and dropped on the rocks, another day in paradise.

 

[MAKE VAPES]

Dude, those explanations were great.. thanks for taking the time.. without an engineering degree don't think I'd be able to figer all that out... lots of shit to contemplate pert nar terra firma, hats off. :icon_mi_1

 

[Pags]

Dude, those explanations were great.. thanks for taking the time.. without an engineering degree don't think I'd be able to figer all that out... lots of shit to contemplate pert nar terra firma, hats off. :icon_mi_1

long story short....if the TR stops working 4.0, it's a bad day.

 

[loadtoad]

To those more experienced: How high do you think he is hovering and would that be in a "caution or avoid" area of a height/velocity diagram?

The only H/V diagram I have seen is the -57 so I am curious if all helicopters have the same basic numbers when it comes to this? thx


Yes we still do full autos in the -57B

 

[Pags]

To those more experienced: How high do you think he is hovering and would that be in a "caution or avoid" area of a height/velocity diagram?

The only H/V diagram I have seen is the -57 so I am curious if all helicopters have the same basic numbers when it comes to this? thx


Yes we still do full autos in the -57B

let's stay away from speculation like this...

 

[loadtoad]

let's stay away from speculation like this...

That's not speculation. That's a genuine helicopter question.
EDIT: Read it over again and I need to clarify what I am trying to ask. Do all helicopters share pretty common numbers in a H/V diagram or is it widely different depending on type? Like is it safer to hover in a -60, -53, -47, -46 at 200ft than a -57....

Besides, my buddies dad is in that Guard unit so I don't need to speculate.