Helo ditching procedure

[wink]

I am a volunteer tactical flight officer for my Sheriff's aviation support unit. We regularly fly over lakes and rivers, frequently at night and sometimes taking off and landing over lakes. That doesn't even count the low and slow flying over water as the mission requires. Every time I am in this environment I think to my USN dunker training. None of my fellow volunteer crew, or full time guys, has had dunker training, not even the retired Army aviators. So it fell to me to provide a brief on underwater egress procedures. I am good with that, I remember the standard USN procedures. My question is about actual helo pilot stuff (note double anchors). We fly OH-58s and a Bell 407 with no flotation or rotor brake. The former Army guys always brief that if they are in control after a landing or auto to water, they will roll the aircraft to the right. The purpose is to stop the blades in the safest manner (blades rotate clockwise). I have never heard such a thing in a Navy briefing. What say you helo types? Just because I got dunked a dozen times or so over the years I am the subject matter expert. I want to address their standard procedure like I know what I am talking about. I would like to say if it is going to float upright for even a couple minutes, let it. I expect the main rotor will mast bump or otherwise breakup on water entry anyway. Helo bubbas take it away...

 

[BigIron]

I don't brief rolling the aircraft to stack the blades. I think if you do a controlled landing on the water, keep the aircraft upright as long as you can. If it's floating, let it continue to do that. Secure the twist grip and let the blades coast down. Get out when you can using normal egress procedures. We had a successful ditch in 2005 using those procedures. Have you guys thought about getting the dunker training from a commercial outfit?

http://www.mcmillanoffshore.com/newcourses.php

 

[Brunes]

Same for all the CG briefs I've heard. We have floats on the 65-So the brief is usually "You get the floats, I'll get us level landing attitude. Once we are in the water- Get the doors off- Rotor will coast down and we'll get out."

I'd second the commercial training and pushing the issue of some sort of flotation if you regularly fly low AWL. There have been two successful commercial helo ditches w/ floats near rigs in the past three months down here. Both times several of the pax didn't even get wet and the pilot was able to use the radio to call for help. That's an advantage I like having.

 

[wink]

Thanks guys. That is very valuable insight. I wonder if the whole rolling thing is the Army standard. Of course, these guys are all old dudes, maybe Army procedure has changed. I couldn't believe they hadn't had dunker training.

I am all for the official training. But this is county government, and if you hadn't heard, things are kind of tough now. The full time guys have to take forced unpaid furlough days and they have stopped flying out to pick up all but the most evil bad guys extradited to us. Volunteers pay for darn near everything. The Sheriff has never given me anything but bullets, and this year I have to bring my own to the next firearms requal. The Airborne Law Enforcement Assoc. provides what is called Shallow Water Egress Training (SWET)at their conferences. That is basically a seat made of PVC pipe they roll into a pool. Even that costs money. I have half a mind to build a device like that, grab my dive gear and get these guys wet. It is better then nothing. The only law enforcement aviator our office has lost was due to a survivable fixed wing crash into a canal that resulted in drowning. That was 1948. The bean counters just don't see the threat.

Anyone else have a thought? Since we aren't going to get the real training anytime soon, I want the brief and discussion to be very productive.

 

[wink]

A specific thought. Since we are talking lakes and rivers the water is calm. In an auto, performed by the average guy with typical results, would you expect an OH-58 to mast bump or otherwise damage the rotors? Since the skids will not provide any vertical component shock absorption on water entry I am thinking the water hitting flat on the belly of the cabin may cause a more rapid vertical decel. I know you can get a very near normal touch down out of an auto, especially in an OH-58. But I also know autos performed out of real emergencies almost always result in the aircraft on it's side and pancaked skids.

 

[phrogdriver]

Why is the thread closed? I'll leave it that way for now, but unless someone says otherwise it's getting reopened in a few hours. Might move it to "private helos" to keep the riff-raff for asking strange questions, though.

 

[wink]

No idea how the thread was closed but I reopened it. I am still learning and hope to hear from some of our green friends.

 

[exhelodrvr]

Don't know if it applies to your helos or not but to jettison windows on the way down or not was an occasional topic of discussion in the ready room (H-3s). The argument for doing so (if you weren't actually on the controls), was to save a step in the egress procedures, and because if the airframe twists at all at impact you might not be able to get them out. The potential negative was that there had been at least one occasion where a pilots window was accidentally knocked out in flight, hit the sponson, and bounced up into the rotor, damaging several blades. But the general consensus was that having the window out already was worth that risk.

I got into the habit the last 2-3 years in the Navy, after strapping in and prior to starting the engines, of closing my eyes and going through the motions of unplugging, finding the HEEDS bottle, getting a handhold, etc. Luckily I never had to do it for real.

 

[phrogpilot73]

In the Phrog world, we plan to:

1. If you've got the chance, jettison the doors/windows. For the reasons exhelodrvr said.
2. Shit can everything that's not bolted down. This includes expensive shit. Why? Because a little less weight can save your life.
3. Throw the raft out - less weight, and if you wait too long - it might not be there for you to hang out in and tell jokes (remember API?)
4. If you're not shooting an auto - keep it upright as long as possible. Everyone but the HAC gets out. The HAC then shuts it down and hops out.
5. If you're shooting an auto - 0/0 is the goal hitting the water.
6. Right after you impact, but before you flip - get the HEEDS/HABD/Whatever they call it these days in your mouth. Gives you a chance to turn it on if you forgot to in flight E.
7. CDRB - Cords, Door, Reference, Belt. Disconnect all cords from your helmet/kneeboard (if you're using the fancy BFT kneeboard), Jettison door (if not done already), Grab your Reference Point, Finally undo your belt and egress. Pull yourself hand-over-hand and NEVER let go of your reference point.
8. Meet at the last known 12, count noses - then the senior man present determines if we're going back into a burning/sinking aircraft to get anyone.

Never heard of controlling the roll. If you can control the aircraft, have your pax/crew jump out and water/air taxi it away, then shut it down. Give them a fighting chance.

 

[phrogdriver]

The one thing I always wondered about--some people brief (or they used to) that they'll let everyone jump out, then air taxi away single-pilot and ditch. That always seemed insane to me. If it's so bad you're ditching, you probably don't have time to practice amateur helocasting.

Now I'm in the world of thinking about f/w ditching techniques, though.

The weird thing about my current aircraft is that we practice egress in the helo egress trainer, which duplicates a r/w (top heavy) rollover. I don't think a V-22 will roll like that. It will either stay upright and sink as such (if you're money and come in straight), or one wing will come off and you'll roll 90-deg, not 180. If you ball it up and cartwheel on the surface, then only luck will get you out.

For E2/C2 guys--how do they train you to ditch?

 

[phrogpilot73]

some people brief (or they used to) that they'll let everyone jump out, then air taxi away single-pilot and ditch. That always seemed insane to me. If it's so bad you're ditching, you probably don't have time to practice amateur helocasting.

Very common in the brief in my squadron. Of course, I don't know what you're talking about amateur helocasting. We helocast at least every other month up here in Norfolk...

 

[phrogdriver]

So what scenario would lead you to do that? Imminent tranny failure? If it's bad enough you're ditching, you're prolonging your time in a high power hover and increasing the likelihood of falling out of the sky suddenly. Utility pump glowing white? The cabin is filling with smoke and chaos--not conducive to an orderly egress. Critically low fuel? Buddy, you've f-d it away already...I guess that's the one though...but you'd better have a good excuse, like the guys in The Perfect Storm.

 

[phrogpilot73]

You really are pretty far removed from not being single engine capable now, aren't you...

 

[phrogdriver]

I can fly around all day with one engine...land with one? Maybe.

But still--you can't do that controlled helocast manuever SE either. I just think it's such a corner case that it's not worth briefing. If it comes up somehow, then you'll be handling it on the fly anyway.

 

[HooverPilot]

For E2/C2 guys--how do they train you to ditch?

We don't fly with chutes in the COD unless it's an FCF, so ditch is commonly trained maneuver. Assuming you've got a bit of altitude, you get on a airstart profile of 150-160 KIAS, and open the ditching hatches. Passing 1K AGL, stop relight attempts and focus on the ditch. I maintain my forward speed until 225-200' AGL, then I trade airspeed to arrest my descent to less than 500 fpm. If your technique is good, our flat bottom aircraft should settle into the water like a boat on plane (or skip like a rock). The dangers are nosing over, nosing into a wave/swell or dropping a wingtip or prop into the water creating a spin. Once all motion stops, disconnect cords, get your reference point and egress. Just like the dunker. I say 40:60 your upright. We have rafts in the back and in the seat pan, take them if you can.

Our procedure is conjecture though. No one has ditched a COD or E-2 to provide a good dataset...