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Hearing, Vision, Waviers and Pilots

nugget61

Active Member
pilot
This is going to be a long post, so apologies in advance.

I have made a few posts and searched through a lot of old threads, but I wanted to make this thread to get current answers to all of my questions and hopefully provide a good reference for the future, so here goes.

Today I underwent MEPS, and had a few problems. First was the hearing - I don't recall what I scored on each of the frequencies, however both ears were something like 10, 20, 25, 30, 35, 20, 10. That may be too many or too few, however my worst was 35 in both ears. According to the NAMI guide that I have (13 March 2007), pilots are allowed:
500 1000 2000 3000 4000 Hz
25.....25...25.....45....55 dB
I understand that I will have to see my scores again to see where I fall, however I think that I will require a wavier. (My test covered more than 5 freqs, so I don't know where the 35 fell). I cannot, however, find out what the waiverable limit is, nor can I find out what further (if any) tests will need to be completed to secure said wavier, or what degradation my hearing can withstand and still fly.

Second problem was with the vision testing. According to them, I am 20/40 distance (which is currently passing), however I am worried that I will have to do this test again and not pass using that stupid machine. If I request it, can I take a chart on a wall kind of test? When my ophthalmologist gave me this style of test I was 20/32 and 20/35, which doesn't make me worry as much as the 20/40 does. I was low on sleep today, which could affect it, but I imagine that I will be low on sleep at OCS as well and I don't want to take any chances.
Furthermore, I failed the depth perception test, and I failed it hard. The administrator was very nice and didn't rush me, however none of the circles jumped out at me, either uncorrected or corrected. (As a side note to this, I've never seen one of those magic eye things work either). I have no reason to suspect my depth perception is bad, however I do know I will need an outside test. NAMI says this regarding the depth tests:
Valid tests of stereopsis include:
a. Armed Forces Vision Tester (AFVT)
b. Verhoeff Stereoptor
c. Stereoacuity Plates used with polarized viewers such as the Stereo Optical or Titmus Optical Stereo Fly or Randot. A randomized version of these tests may be used if the examiner deems it necessary.
Can I just get a doc to do one of these tests, send in the results with an explanation and then I am good to get passed? I've been told that if this happens I should keep a copy of said letter and test for OCS and NAMI, however will this become an issue? (The NAMI Whammy scares me). With regards to OCS, has anyone had the doc take an outside letter if you failed the test on site?
Final vision question - I had to use the Auto Refraction machine for them to determine my prescription, which it turned out -1.25 (Corrected 20/20) and -2.25 (Corrected 20/40). I have already submitted my papers from the eye doc stating my last exam (4 months ago) I was -1.25 (corrected 20/20) in both eyes, however will this test come back to haunt me?

Thanks for any and all replies - I just got my Pro-Rec SNA, so you can imagine how excited I am to get my dream shot and how scared I am of not qualifying for it.
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Short version - anyone know the max wavierable hearing is?

Hey. Part of being a leader/officer is showing a little initiative. We're here to help you, but not hold your hand through finding basic information.

Check out the following thread on AW about waivers:

http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=139735

And here's the page at NOMI for NAMI's waiver guide:

http://navmedmpte.med.navy.mil/nomi/nami/waiverguidetopics.cfm

This last link provides the standards of physical exams for applicants and designated folks (SNA/SNFO or NA/NFO), INCLUDING hearing standards.

http://navmedmpte.med.navy.mil/nomi/nami/WaiverGuideTopics/pdfs/Waiver%20Guide%20-%20Physical%20Standards.pdf

I spent 5 minutes looking for this info.

SERIOUSLY, folks. This information isn't top secret. Spend 5 minutes looking and I'm sure you won't need to start countless threads asking about waivers.
 

nugget61

Active Member
pilot
Otto,
Thanks for the links; I actually had searched and quoated the NAMI guide in my first post, however they don't post the max waiverable hearing limits, only what you have to meet to not require a wavier.
I did read in an old thread that 40dB at 2000Hz was waived, but they were already winged. Anyone know for applicants?
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Otto,
Thanks for the links; I actually had searched and quoated the NAMI guide in my first post, however they don't post the max waiverable hearing limits, only what you have to meet to not require a wavier.
I did read in an old thread that 40dB at 2000Hz was waived, but they were already winged. Anyone know for applicants?


All the answers are there. If you are beyond the normal limits without requiring a waiver, then follow what it says in the waiver guide. If there are no numbers, then it is probably up to the discretion of the flight surgeon pending whatever tests they conduct/look at your audiology results.
 

staff03

New Member
If you see 20/20 in one eye but worse than 20/20 in the other, do they test your depth perception as is, or do they correct to 20/20 in the worse eye and then test you?
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
If you see 20/20 in one eye but worse than 20/20 in the other, do they test your depth perception as is, or do they correct to 20/20 in the worse eye and then test you?

Depth perception test (and color test) is done with correction. If you have glasses, you can wear em for the test.
 

staff03

New Member
What if you don't have glasses or contacts right now, will they give you glasses on the spot to take the test or what?
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
What if you don't have glasses or contacts right now, will they give you glasses on the spot to take the test or what?

If your vision is close to 20/20, I doubt it, but then you probably won't need em to pass the test. If you make a big deal about it, I'm sure they can get you some correction to take the test. If you're talking MEPS or something, I doubt it.

Like I said, if you don't have glasses, you probably won't need em to pass it. I had never worn glasses before the Navy and wasn't 20/20 and I passed it at MEPS and NAMI without correction.
 

staff03

New Member
I'm just wondering if having 20/20 in both eyes as opposed to 20/20 and 20/30 would actually improve your depth perception. I went to a civ doctor today and my dp was 60 arc seconds which isn't in the limits, so would seeing 20/20 in each eye help with that?
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
I'm just wondering if having 20/20 in both eyes as opposed to 20/20 and 20/30 would actually improve your depth perception. I went to a civ doctor today and my dp was 60 arc seconds which isn't in the limits, so would seeing 20/20 in each eye help with that?

Slightly, but who knows? I guess you'll have to wait and see. As I understand it, the civilian test is quite a lot easier and usually where folks who fail MEPS go for an alternate test. I'm wondering if you failed the civilian test if you legitimately might have a depth problem. Probably worth talking to the doc about.
 

staff03

New Member
It's just too weird. I see fine. I function fine. I played baseball growing up and was able to hit a small ball coming at me, therefore I must have depth perception, what the hell.
 

JD81

FUBIJAR
pilot
All the numbers are out there as far as req's, max's allowables, etc... Best thing to do is talk to a USN Doc. You can sit here and discuss with other flight students/pro-rec's/whatever's and hear what their interpretation of the reg's are, but you might as well piss into the wind while your at it 'cause it means jack squat and a USN Doc is the bottom line. I stumbled on the meps vision tests as well, talked with my recruiter and he hooked me up with a FLT surgeon and I saw my civie' Doc too, and it all worked out with me passing the Navy's tests without a hitch.

Best of luck
 

staff03

New Member
Do they still have it to if you fail the circle depth perception test at OCS or NOMI they have a couple of different tests they allow you to take?
 

nugget61

Active Member
pilot
I'm just wondering if having 20/20 in both eyes as opposed to 20/20 and 20/30 would actually improve your depth perception. I went to a civ doctor today and my dp was 60 arc seconds which isn't in the limits, so would seeing 20/20 in each eye help with that?

My personal opinion is that it was easier to see the depth test with uncorrected (20/40 for me) eyes than corrected, but I didn't pass at meps, had to go to a civ doc for that.
You should go for a second opinion now that you know how the test works and what to look for in it, and a doc should be able to let you look through the refraction machine to correct your vision if you want to try it both ways.

It's just too weird. I see fine. I function fine. I played baseball growing up and was able to hit a small ball coming at me, therefore I must have depth perception, what the hell.

I thought the same thing when I failed meps - it has to do with stereo depth perception - 90% of all depth perception uses more than depth clues ie two identical cars are in front of you and one is smaller, therefore you know its further off. These tests test the other 10%.
Hope you can get a retest and pass though; don't quit until they absolutely make you. And then try again.
 
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