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Haiti

JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Are there any Caribbean FAO/RAO's on here that can explain why Haiti is a perennial hellscape, yet on the same island the DR seems to be relatively stable?

The answer probably informs why there are no Haitian MLB stars, but the DR has plenty. Just curious.
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
Are there any Caribbean FAO/RAO's on here that can explain why Haiti is a perennial hellscape, yet on the same island the DR seems to be relatively stable?

The answer probably informs why there are no Haitian MLB stars, but the DR has plenty. Just curious.
Could I step on a land mine instead? In today’s highly charged academic world you could lose your job for not telling the right tale. One side says it is all American racism, but when challenged with the success of neighboring DR they fumble their response. The U.S. occupied both nations at one time or another and the Marines proved brutally effective in both. While there is no doubt that racism certainly had an impact, it isn’t a fundamental cause of current issues - put simply it is complicated and made more so by the near governmental functions of criminal gangs in the country. If you are looking for a good (but slightly jaded) read try The Immaculate Invasion by Bob Shacochis. It was published after the Clinton “occupation” and tells of the depth of the dysfunction there.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Could I step on a land mine instead? In today’s highly charged academic world you could lose your job for not telling the right tale. One side says it is all American racism, but when challenged with the success of neighboring DR they fumble their response. The U.S. occupied both nations at one time or another and the Marines proved brutally effective in both. While there is no doubt that racism certainly had an impact, it isn’t a fundamental cause of current issues - put simply it is complicated and made more so by the near governmental functions of criminal gangs in the country. If you are looking for a good (but slightly jaded) read try The Immaculate Invasion by Bob Shacochis. It was published after the Clinton “occupation” and tells of the depth of the dysfunction there.

I think most historians familiar with the region would disagree that the US is the root of the issues with Haiti, just a contributing factor and probably a smaller one at that.

Haiti has been a bit of a hot mess since their Revolution began, with France doing everything it could to undermine it during its fight for independence and afterwards for a long time to include saddling them with a debt that wasn't paid off until 1947. Their independence was also a very brutal and bloody affair, a bit like the French Revolution on steroids with race thrown in for good measure. Their history since has been marked by authoritarian leaders, instability, occupation and incompetence.

Edit: Repeated natural disasters like hurricanes and the earthquake in 2010 haven't helped either.
 
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Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
As with most things like this, Haiti's problems aren't due to just one thing. That said, the French and US governments did just about everything they could to ensure Haiti failed after its independence. The Southern-dominated pre-Civil War American administrations did it because they really didn't want anybody to see a nearby Black revolution overthrowing a White government and succeeding, and the French basically out of a sheer bloody minded spirit of va te faire foutre. Like @Flash said, Haiti's revolution was a horror show.

The Dom Rep should have been an equally failed state, and until very recently it was. Most of its history has been one caudillo overthrowing another and coups as the preferred method of transferring power, interspersed with periodic invasions from other countries. Then in the late 80s-early 90s they essentially got exhausted with the whole thing, plus sugarcane (its main export) was no longer worth what it used to be, and the country switched over to a primarily service-oriented economy in the span of about ten years. Since then, everyone in the DR's discovered it's much more pleasant having an economy based on golf courses and beach resorts, than working in sugarcane fields while the two rival El Jefe Maximo Supremo-wannabes of the month shoot at each other.

Haiti's basic problem is that it just doesn't really have an economy. Its third of the island was never really great for agriculture, it doesn't have anything else worth exporting, and some profoundly boneheaded decisions by its leaders have made it even worse. The near complete lack of jobs, education, or social mobility means it's always a riot waiting to happen. As a result Haiti's never been stable enough to attract investors to switch over its economy like the other former plantation islands - to tourism, offshore banking, etc. The little bit of tourism money there is, is because the French will go on vacation anywhere.
 

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
My mind remains blown at the difference between NK and SK. I guess East and West Germany too. Essentially the same people...
When it comes to Haiti and the DR, kinda but not really; more like "shared history" but much different culturally and to a degree ethnically and very little to no mutual affinity. France and Spain had already agreed to divide up Hispaniola long before the Haitian revolution. A few years after independence, Haiti invaded the eastern part of the island to spread the revolution. The Haitian revolutionary government had decreed laws dispossessing any European landowners (sort of like what later happened in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe) and the Spanish mostly took off for elsewhere in the Caribbean, but some of them stayed behind and later organized a counter-revolution. So the two sides of the island have mostly been in a varying-degrees-of-hostile standoff for most of the last 200 years.
 

insanebikerboy

Internet killed the television star
pilot
None
Contributor
My only experience with Haiti was during the 2010 earthquake. I recall flying near the border of Haiti and looking into the DR. From a few hundred feet, the forests/jungles, etc were lush in the DR, and in Haiti a lot of it was clear cut and barren landscape.
 

CAMike

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Haiti? They seem to enjoy burning their own shi—ole country down for greed and organized crime development. DR seems to be sightly more evolved. The sad thing is that every year US tax dollars keep flowing in to this SHC. It’s as if the US thinks the more money we give, the more chance things might improve. Where do we find such leadership?
 
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