Gaza

[usmarinemike]

If we really want to get into an energy discussion, this chart will provide a good reference to what we actually use and where it goes. Pretty interesting to look at it. I'll have more analysis to follow, just wanted to get this out for starters (also suggest possible thread split for new topic).

Cool graphic. Trying to figure out the exact meaning of the two greys on the right? Is it simply a measure of efficiency?

And what type of unit is a quad?

 

[xj220]

Cool graphic. Trying to figure out the exact meaning of the two greys on the right? Is it simply a measure of efficiency?

And what type of unit is a quad?

It's been awhile since I looked at the graphic, like I said I need a bit more time to give my analysis of it, but my guess would be efficiency. It's pretty crazy how inefficient some things are, ie solar panels are only about 10-15% efficient.

Here's the best explanation of a quad: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quad_(unit)

 

[xj220]

Here's the link where I got the graphic: http://phys.org/news/2011-04-energy_1.html

The rejected energy is due to inefficiencies and waste heat (it explains it in the first paragraph).

 

[scoober78]

O

That's the real tragedy here. The average Palestinian is being used as a pawn by Hamas, ultimately to his detriment. The interview of Khaled Meshaal by Amanpour last night was pretty revealing. Hamas may be transitioning to a "legitimate" political party, but they've got a long way to go before they're ready for prime time. Lots of hate there.

On the money...one of the things I find most interesting in all of this is watching the various Palestinian "factions" interacting with one another. I'll see if I can find it but All Things Considered did an interview with the Chairman of the American delegation of the Palestinian Authority...the most interesting portion were the parts where he was pushed on the open and not so open power struggle going on between Hamas and the Palestinian Authority. Despite all the other challenges facing them, I'm not convinced that the biggest one isn't telling themselves who they are and where they want to go as a people. It will be interesting to watch...

 

[SkywardET]

Here's the thing about oil and petroleum based fuels: they're extremely good at what they do. Let's use gasoline as an example. It provides a lot of power per unit volume (I forgot the exact terminology, specific heat comes to mind), it's cheap, has low volatility, is stable, easy to transport and can be used in anything from large power turbines to lawn mowers. We'll use cars as another example since they're a big usage of fossil fuels. Electric cars are catching on, but they have limited range and limited infrastructure. Same goes for natural gas cars. With electric cars, they take several hours to recharge whereas I can fill up my tank in 5 min. Try weaning yourself off of that.

The word you're looking for is specific energy.
You're right about electric cars--they are not going to make it big here. We'd be better off using horses vice electric cars. I'm already thinking of converting one of my cars to run on natural gas though. I know of a place in Milton that sells it. Still need to do the research and run a personalized cost analysis on it, but it seems like a good idea worth pursuing.

 

[squorch2]

If by here you mean "exurban America," then you might be right.

 

[Spekkio]

So if I'm reading the chart correctly, solar, nuclear, and other alternate energy sources won't appreciably reduce our dependence on foreign oil, since those are used to generate electricity while foreign (and domestic) oil is used in industrial and transportation applications?

 

[MasterBates]

Some of the industrial uses could shift to the electrical side if electricity got cheap enough (or petrol got expensive enough) but others like plastic products need petrol as a feed stock.

Sent from my PH44100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[jmcquate]

As long as the Palestinian grievance is the very existence of the State of Israel, there is no solution but constant armed conflict up until the destruction of one side or the other. This is'nt about energy , it's about Israel

 

[Renegade One]

As long as the Palestinian grievance is the very existence of the State of Israel, there is no solution but constant armed conflict up until the destruction of one side or the other. This is'nt about energy , it's about Israel

Bingo. Call me a crusty old curmudgeon...you'd be about half right. Some others on this thread are well-read, and have been exposed by virtue of assignment or opportunity to the VERY complex issues behind the ongoing (let me say it....never-ending) dispute, and probably had the opportunity of listening to speakers from BOTH sides who all have all tried to explain their perspectives in a dispassionate manner. That's all good.

Here's what I think "the deal" is, however [standard caveat: I've been wrong before.]:

1. The US will "have Israel's back"...come what may. It's not (IMHO) about the domestic Jewish vote or anything quite so politically pragmatic...it's just because it's the freaking right thing to do against the long stream of history. It may not be popular...it may seem imprudent...it may seem we're "taking sides". Hint: We are....and I hope we continue to do so. Sometimes, you have to make a choice...

2. I reject the claim that "unguided, ballistic rockets aimed at population centers" (e.g., "terror weapons"...) are somehow "okay" because "that's all they have". Then, when a more capable adversary, trying as hard as they can to minimize CD and CC, with largely precision-guided weapons, manages to inflict some "unintended consequences" (e.g., "collateral damage" (which is buildings and infrastructure) and "unintended civilian casualties" (innocent civilian pink butts)), then they are "the bad guy". Any and every nation has the absolute right to defend there own people and take the best military options available to them to make it stop.

Off my soap box. I'm happy that the US seems to be perceived as having a leadership role in the diplomatic process. I'd like to think that's true, but have no idea why "Uncle Sugar" is always the first to be called upon...especially in this tinder box part of the world where Islamists all seem to hate us. Probably the last thing we should do is put more American "pink butts" on the ground. Talk about a lightning rod....

 

[Brett327]

I never said rocket attacks were OK. Those are your words. Nobody is condoning Hamas' tactics. It is still all they have though. It's the only way they have to fight back against what they perceive as a threat. Is what any belligerent would do. That said, Israel absolutely has the right to defend itself, preemptively if necessary. It's a very frustrating situation, but the problem with the train of thought that says, "well, they're all savages, so lets just exterminate them" is that it's never going to happen. It's a moot point. Conflicts like these end with a political settlement.

So, even though Hamas may still have the elimination of Israel as part of its party platform, that is a bargaining position from which they start. If there's going to be any kind of resolution, both sides are going to have to compromise.

 

[xj220]

The word you're looking for is specific energy.
You're right about electric cars--they are not going to make it big here. We'd be better off using horses vice electric cars. I'm already thinking of converting one of my cars to run on natural gas though. I know of a place in Milton that sells it. Still need to do the research and run a personalized cost analysis on it, but it seems like a good idea worth pursuing.

That's right, it's all coming back. Electric cars have a chance, but they have some hurdles. One, charging stations need to be more prevalent. This goes for any non-petroleum powered car, you need the infrastructure to make it successful, but you need the demand to build the infrastructure. That's slowly changing though (plug-in hybrids go along way towards bridging the gap). The next part is charging. It can work if you don't need long distances and plug your car in whenever you park (ie work or home). Since you'll be in those places for awhile you'll be able to maintain a decent charge. Again, plug-in hybrids would overcome this hurdle.

So if I'm reading the chart correctly, solar, nuclear, and other alternate energy sources won't appreciably reduce our dependence on foreign oil, since those are used to generate electricity while foreign (and domestic) oil is used in industrial and transportation applications?

Pretty much. I'm all for alternate energies, especially nuclear power though. The big part will be making everything more efficient as you can see our waste is huge.

 

[Renegade One]

...the problem [is] with the train of thought that says, "well, they're all savages, so lets just exterminate them"

They are not all savages, but let's stop trying to "understand" those fuck-wads that are. And how about those that aren't savages throwing a damned choke-hold on those that are? By that I mean those "peaceful types" within Gaza who are sadly reaping the whirlwind sown by others.

Hamas may still have the elimination of Israel as part of its party platform, that is a bargaining position from which they start. If there's going to be any kind of resolution, both sides are going to have to compromise.

How would Hamas "compromise" on that plank in the party platform? Seems to be a pretty black and white position...one which doesn't exactly lend itself to a "middle ground". "Well, we only want to eliminate half..."?

We had our own internal dispute over "party platforms" about 150 years ago. Didn't go well...and there were no negotiations worthy of the name, but the issue was resolved. Sometimes resolution is better than compromise. The absolute WORST thing that could have happened at that time would have been to have "The European Powers" come in and man a DMZ along the Mason-Dixon line, enforcing a cease-fire that resolved absolutely nothing.

 

[scoolbubba]

They are not all savages, but let's stop trying to "understand" those fuck-wads that are. And how about those that aren't savages throwing a damned choke-hold on those that are? By that I mean those "peaceful types" within Gaza who are sadly reaping the whirlwind sown by others.

Agree with the rest, but on this, the problem with the peaceful types is that they generally don't have the guns, or backing of regional assholes/powers. They're mostly just along for the ride. Unlucky enough to be born in a shithole...

 

[Brett327]

Well, if you're not interested in understanding the problem and what motivates the belligerents, then I'd say you're putting yourself at a significant disadvantage. As for Hamas, nothing is static. If they're presented with something that is in their best interests, chances are, they'll compromise on their stance on Israel.

Sounds like someone just saw "Lincoln," although I'm not sure I see any parallels between our civil war and the Middle East. Nobody is suggesting that we send troops to the Gaza Strip.