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Friend in Need

Stearmann4

I'm here for the Jeeehawd!
None
I know I can be a little dated and harsh sometimes, but has anyone considered the possibility that once a guy, no matter his potential considers quitting over something as elementary as school house BS that he very well may have the same reaction when it gets hard after winging? Just sayin'..once a quitter, always a quitter, it's infectious - save him now.

MR-
 

MidWestEwo

Member
None
VT-10 does not suck. The start of instruments can be challenging, but is relatively easy compared to the rest of the training pipeline. If the guy isn't enjoying himself flying in a T-6 doing basic instrument navigation with a bunch of care-free P3 and helo pilots, he is one of those people that should probably get out of the program. Almost everyone that I know that went P3s out of primary were disappointed with the RAG. They were underwhelmed, lacked challenge, and were pretty well bored when they got there. Even something as glorious as winging didn't seem like a big deal to them. It could be partially because they all went P3s for reasons other than wanting to fly the mission of the P3. I don't really know anyone who went that route because they wanted to hunt submarines.
 

one

New Member
You should tell him to man up. If he wants to keep going he will. If he can't handle this, what is he going to be like later. Sometimes people quit and it strengthens the community.
 

MidWestEwo

Member
None
^ He said it

I have seen a good number of individuals that didn't have the heart from the start, and just did the minimum to get by. When they got to VT-86 and either brain dumped the basics from the beginning, or never learned the stuff when things were easy. They either had a really tough time, or didn't make it. Again, if he is doubting himself now, he should either go the P3 route or find a new community.
 

IRfly

Registered User
None
^ He said it

I have seen a good number of individuals that didn't have the heart from the start, and just did the minimum to get by. When they got to VT-86 and either brain dumped the basics from the beginning, or never learned the stuff when things were easy. They either had a really tough time, or didn't make it. Again, if he is doubting himself now, he should either go the P3 route or find a new community.

What're you trying to say, hotshot?
 

OUSOONER

Crusty Shellback
pilot
^-- I think he meant he should stick to his guns and the original plan of being a P-3 FO and not quit. I don't think it was a dig at the 4 fans of freedom.
 

BusyBee604

St. Francis/Hugh Hefner Combo!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Again, if he is doubting himself now, he should either go the P3 route or find a new community.

Help me here, are you saying that if he doubts himself, he is still OK for P-3s or some 'other' communities (but not yours)? I'm not VP, but I am confused...not sure you meant what was implied.
BzB
 

scoolbubba

Brett327 gargles ballsacks
pilot
Contributor
What's the zone for a MK-50 targeted on your ass? It's been a few months since my board.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
What're you trying to say, hotshot?
I Agree with their kid, but not or the reasons ou might think. There's a fundamental difference in what Jet and Prop NFOs are taught in their respective pipelines. VT 86 guys focus on aviating (co-piloting skills), because that's what they'll be doing in their platforms. VP NFOs don't do that in the fleet. So, if a guy is struggling with those basic navigating and co-piloting skills (or the motivation to do them well) in VT-4 or 10, then he's not going to make it through 86. That said, that person may be more suitable to a different skill-set found in the VP pipeline, or one where things aren't coming at you at 480+ Kts. Maybe carrying a big box of crypto keys and yelling into the HF radio is more his speed.

Brett
 

IRfly

Registered User
None
I Agree with their kid, but not or the reasons ou might think. There's a fundamental difference in what Jet and Prop NFOs are taught in their respective pipelines. VT 86 guys focus on aviating (co-piloting skills), because that's what they'll be doing in their platforms. VP NFOs don't do that in the fleet. So, if a guy is struggling with those basic navigating and co-piloting skills (or the motivation to do them well) in VT-4 or 10, then he's not going to make it through 86. That said, that person may be more suitable to a different skill-set found in the VP pipeline, or one where things aren't coming at you at 480+ Kts. Maybe carrying a big box of crypto keys and yelling into the HF radio is more his speed.

Brett

I can't compare the squadron lifestyles or relative levels of difficulty because I simply don't know enough about VAQ, VAW, or VFA and how they roll. I'll grant two things:

1) VP-30 is going to be an easier time than both continuing in VT-10 and going through VT-86. At -30 they start to treat you like a big boy/girl and a lot of the TRACOM BS goes away.
2) Again, while I don't know much about other communities, I bet it's easier to hide a poor performer in a wardroom of 56 officers than in a wardroom of 24 (or however many--but certainly fewer than VP).

Bottom line, if the OP's "friend" doesn't like flying enough to consider DOR'ing in the TRACOM, he'll find no relief in VP--plenty of 10-hour burners out there with his name on them (my first flight in my squadron was 11.5 or so, and NAVs stay in the seat). There will also be plenty of times when that 10-hour flight briefs at 0400 on Saturday morning. NAVs hate life (myself included). Taccos do too--less frequently, but with more intensity (like when writing purples). Granted, nothing comes at you at 480kts (unless two P-3s happen to be screaming directly at each other :)), but when "single buoy, down doppler" is immediately followed by "uh, tacco, actually, our last contact was like, 9 minutes ago," there's a fair amount of stress and time pressure. OP, tell your friend to toughen up and that, unless he wants out of the Navy, there's no better job to be found than in Naval Aviation. He'll never be able to just kick it to cruise control, but he'll make it just fine.
One last note--a few weeks ago I went aboard a cruiser as part of my duties. Seeing my wings, about 8 Ensigns approached me with a sad story of how they attrited or DOR'd out of flight school. DON'T BE THAT GUY.

Merry Christmas, everyone!
 
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