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Freedom of speech gone too far..

HackerF15E said:
This the first time you've heard of Westboro Baptist Church?
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Fred Phelps is a homosexual who claims to have disavowed homosexuality. Really? He is the founder and "leader" of this hate group.

This is not a church at all. It is a hate group, almost all members are Phelps family members, with one or two strays thrown in, claiming to be a church. Their number is about 14 The hate group has no connection at all to the Baptist Church.

Recently, with much ballyhoo, they staged a protest at our local high school. Their protest group numbered 5, all were very queer family members. 3 of the 5 in the protest group were (appeared to be) under 10 years old.

This hate group has no right:

A. To claim it is a church with Baptist affiliations.
B. To be called a Baptist Church or even a Church by the media, nor anyone else.

Their rightful place is the Hate Group category and if justice were served they would be charged and prosecuted for Hate Crimes. Just my .02C worth.
 
They have a case that is due to go before the Supreme Court soon (would have to dig fer case details if anyone is interested) which will have some implications on their "free speech". Hopefully the Justices decide that these yahoo's are infringing on the grieving families rights and kicks them in the nuts. Otherwise if they win the case there is little to stop them without the possibility of violence being involved.

Edit: Just found the link to the case. Sadly after reading other editorials on it, I don't think this case is going to be strong enough. Hopefully some type of justice can be done though.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/10/06/washington.free.speech.trial/index.html?iref=NS1
 
In addition, many of the family members/church members are attorneys. There know exactly what they can and can't do, and have made a living doing this. When I was at the University of Kansas in the 80's, they would come down to the student areas and yell at people for hours on end. It was very entertaining, and harmless. What they have moved into now is disgusting but for the most part legal.

The question that I have, which can never be answered, is if they really believe anything of what they say.
 
The Patriot Guard Riders do a damn good job of separating out these idiots. And they show up in force. If westboro crazies (no caps, they don't deserve them) are going to show up to a funeral you can bet these guys will be right there to support the fallen and their family. I've had a few experiences with the PGR while on the funeral detail for MATSG-21. They are definitely a class act.
 
I saw a special about Westboro a few years ago, and yeah, they are nuts. They are completely unreasonable; they deflect any rational arguments and deflect anything damning about them, or speak out of both sides of their mouths. Based on what I saw, I do think they believe in what they say, but it also seems obvious that they love the attention they get. I hope the Supreme Court is able to shut these nutjobs up.

The only time I've ever actually seen them was this summer, they were protesting outside of Grant Park during Lollapalooza in Chicago with a police detail keeping an eye out right behind them. I would love to have seen that about 40 years ago. "Shoot to kill" comes to mind...
 
Others may do as they wish or their conscience dictates. I was faced with something similar at a friends funeral but not of this radical group. I took offense at this clowns ravings at my friends funeral and did a very deliberate stumble into him. The fact that his gonads were swollen to the size of grapefruits when he left was of no concern to me. He also had a hard time seeing out of one eye that somehow ran into an elbow while we were falling and my knee rammed into his crotch. Sorry about that ........
I'm sick and tired of people who are afraid to take a stand and make their point contra radical assholes. It would appear this country is turning into a bunch of woosies/sissies/nambypamby politically correct babies. Was a time when anyone who was disrespectful at any gathering was quickly taken to task and physically removed by those in attendance. Now it takes a friggin court order and months of argument to make anything happen.
Chesty where are ya when we need ya?
Semper Fi
Rocky
 
My dad is in the Patriot Guard Riders and their method of combating yahoos like this is pretty cool. Several bikers ride at the front of the procession with large (3x5) American flags. If any protesters are seen along the route the riders simply place themselves in front of them and hold the flags extended out so all the family sees is a long row of American flags. Of course he's also told me some stories from when things weren't resolved entirely with words...
 
As despicable as they may be they are exercising a constitutional right, just like the Illinois nazis did back in the 70's. A ruling against them will likely not make much difference anyways since I doubt they will give up their protests. And then there is always the question, if it starts with them then where is the limit? I certainly don't want us to become like Canada or several countries in western Europe where you can face punishment for saying 'hateful' things like the Dutch parliamentarian Geert Wilders or Mark Steyn of Maclean's magazine. A ruling against these idiots could possibly open the door for laws like that.

I certainly wouldn't want these morons showing up at my funeral but I would want them banned from doing so either. I say let the Patriot Guard Riders continue to do their excellent service, they have done well so far, and leave it at that.
 
FlyinRock said:
I'm sick and tired of people who are afraid to take a stand and make their point contra radical assholes. It would appear this country is turning into a bunch of woosies/sissies/nambypamby politically correct babies. Was a time when anyone who was disrespectful at any gathering was quickly taken to task and physically removed by those in attendance. Now it takes a friggin court order and months of argument to make anything happen.
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I think an old Apollo astronaut would agree with you.


The crazies out there have every right to say what they want. However, they're responsible for those words...and that might earn them a little something like with Mr Sibrel in the video there. Sure, then you could get taken to court, but I wonder how many judges would side with the crazy person? Sibrel sued Aldrin for punching him. The judge dismissed the case claiming that Aldrin was reasonably provoked. All in all, damn fine punch for a guy his age.
 
In doing some research I came across this from a case before the Texas 3rd District Court of Appeals: "The First Amendment prohibits laws that abridge freedom of speech. There are, however, certain classes of speech that are not afforded the protection of the First Amendment. "Fighting words" are one such class of speech, which are "personally abusive epithets which, when addressed to the ordinary citizen, are, as a matter of common knowledge, inherently likely to provoke violent reaction. Accordingly, we hold that the conduct proscribed under section 42.01(a)(2) falls within the "fighting words" exception and does not violate rights of free speech and expression protected by the First and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution. We overrule appellant's first point of error.

Wouldn't Westboro's protests fall under the "fighting words" criteria?
 
Tex_Hill said:
In doing some research I came across this from a case before the Texas 3rd District Court of Appeals: "The First Amendment prohibits laws that abridge freedom of speech. There are, however, certain classes of speech that are not afforded the protection of the First Amendment. "Fighting words" are one such class of speech, which are "personally abusive epithets which, when addressed to the ordinary citizen, are, as a matter of common knowledge, inherently likely to provoke violent reaction. Accordingly, we hold that the conduct proscribed under section 42.01(a)(2) falls within the "fighting words" exception and does not violate rights of free speech and expression protected by the First and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution. We overrule appellant's first point of error.

Wouldn't Westboro's protests fall under the "fighting words" criteria?
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Good question, I could see it possibly falling under that criteria but for a few things; from what I know the protests are usually not directed at individual people but to a larger group (basically the US), I don't think they ever get close enough to provoke a reaction from anyone at the actual funeral and finally, the complainant in the case before the Supreme Court never saw them at the funeral, they were over 1000 feet away and were standing where the police told them to and he only saw them on TV afterwards. The 'fighting words' criteria probably doesn't fit into for this case and from what I have read the argument was largely dismissed during the arguments before the Supreme Court.

Now if they go into one of the Patriot Guard Riders' face and he did an 'Evo Morales' to one of the idiots then they might have a defense.......;)
 
So these nuts can stomp on an American flag across from Arlington National Cemetery during a funeral for a fallen soldier.....

Yet BHO and other members of his cabinet will call to ask you not to burn a koran.

This administration is F'd up.
 
Yeah, these people suck. I remember seeing this interview on Fox News a while ago.

 
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