Foreign Policy Shifts?

[SteveHolt!!!]

This is often cited, but it's based on perception surveys conducted by female psychologists with an axe to grind.

At some point in my life, I realized that the annoyance I felt at people confidently talking about helicopter aviation without the requisite background implied that everyone else felt the same about me when I stepped into their lanes of expertise. It doesn’t mean that they can’t be wrong or I shouldn’t critically think about what they have to say, but if I find myself comprehensively rejecting a field of study because it doesn’t align with my prior beliefs… well, maybe I should pause and reconsider my prior beliefs.

And, anecdotally, a lot of officer wives stop working after a couple of PCS's / giving birth because officers make enough to support the household on a single income. Statistically, mil officers have a lower divorce rate than the general population.

I think you may have an order of operations problem here. I don’t think that a lot of officer wives are not working after PCS’s “because” the officer makes enough to support the household. Lots of other factors prevent them from having consistent and fulfilling employment, and the sufficient single income somewhat mitigates this.

And I have seen my spouse many times encounter that 'ew, you don't work' face from other women when we had 3 toddlers running around and had to have the 'look, she made a decision based on what she felt was best for the family' talk with my mom to get her stop the pointed questions about 'so when are you going back to work?' 5 minutes after walking in the door.

Oh man, wait until you hear about the “ew you don’t have kids” face.


Anyways, as I sit in my air conditioned house, eating a banana shipped from around the world, and arguing with people spread all across the world, all while I prepare to go to my job flying spinning metal monstrosities, I think that maybe we passed biological imperatives a few thousand years ago. If the outcome of biological, intellectual, and economic independence (for both men and women) is a significantly reduced fertility rate, then maybe we should start thinking critically about how we manage that society.

 

[Spekkio]

I hope as a man that you juggle those things. For the kids

Asking Gemini...

"Are there actual studies where they logged household chores done by men and women in the household when both work?"

Yes, numerous major studies and time-use logs confirm that women perform more household chores than men, even when both partners are employed full-time. [1, 2]
Prominent research detailing this division includes:

• The American Time Use Survey (ATUS): Conducted by the Bureau of Labor Statistics, this ongoing survey is the gold standard for tracking how people divide their day. The Gender Equity Policy Institute analyzed these logs to find that working women spend roughly 12.6 hours per week on core chores (cooking, cleaning), compared to just 5.7 hours for working men

I think you misunderstood - I said time *independent* studies.

If there are two contractors who do roofing, and one takes 25-50% longer than the other for each job, do they actually do more roofing?

 

[taxi1]

If there are two contractors who do roofing, and one takes 25-50% longer than the other for each job, do they actually do more roofing?

Hey honey, watch this! (Juggles 3 plates, drops 2, breaks 1) Where’s the broom and dustpan?

 

[Randy Daytona]

An excellent article from economist Branko Milanovic, famous for his “Elephant Curve” theory that showed how the working classes of Western nations were the big losers in globalization:

The End of Neoliberalism

The virtues it extolled—cosmopolitanism and competition—led to its demise.

foreignpolicy.com

 

[Spekkio]

At some point in my life, I realized that the annoyance I felt at people confidently talking about helicopter aviation without the requisite background implied that everyone else felt the same about me when I stepped into their lanes of expertise. It doesn’t mean that they can’t be wrong or I shouldn’t critically think about what they have to say, but if I find myself comprehensively rejecting a field of study because it doesn’t align with my prior beliefs… well, maybe I should pause and reconsider my prior beliefs.

Anyone with a basic background in scientific research can see the flaws in the methodology. Do you have an issue with my criticisms beyond making assumptions about my educational background?

I think you may have an order of operations problem here. I don’t think that a lot of officer wives are not working after PCS’s “because” the officer makes enough to support the household. Lots of other factors prevent them from having consistent and fulfilling employment, and the sufficient single income somewhat mitigates this.

I postulate that the 'order of operations' doesn't matter.

Given the right mixture of economic conditions juxtaposed with socially acceptable excuses, women will opt out of the workforce at an extremely high rate.

So what I'm saying is that the underlying tones for women to obtain and maintain a career is a mixture of economic necessity and pressure from other women.

These women could do what my great (great?) aunt did when my great (great?) uncle reenlisted after WWII: 'Oh, they're sending you to Hawaii? I'll be in Illinois when you get back." He separated at 14 years while she worked a full-time job... in the 1950s.

 

[Spekkio]

Hey honey, watch this! (Juggles 3 plates, drops 2, breaks 1) Where’s the broom and dustpan?

Yeah, believe it or not men are not complete bumbling idiots when it comes to the basics of cleaning their domiciles. Also, women are way filthier / high cleaning maintenance than men.

I'd ask you to contemplate how a joke about women being shitty drivers would be received compared to this joke.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Yeah, believe it or not men are not complete bumbling idiots when it comes to the basics of cleaning their domiciles. Also, women are way filthier / high cleaning maintenance than men.

I'd ask you to contemplate how a joke about women being shitty drivers would be received compared to this joke.

 

[Spekkio]

image

Hey, it's all good. I still find the show Married With Children funny.

 

[CommodoreMid]

Yeah, believe it or not men are not complete bumbling idiots when it comes to the basics of cleaning their domiciles. Also, women are way filthier / high cleaning maintenance than men.

I'd ask you to contemplate how a joke about women being shitty drivers would be received compared to this joke.

We’re not filthier, but yes higher maintenance. One word: hair.

 

[taxi1]

Also, women are way filthier / high cleaning maintenance than men.

I'd ask you to contemplate how a joke about women being shitty drivers…

This has got filthiness and bad driving.

 

[SteveHolt!!!]

Anyone with a basic background in scientific research can see the flaws in the methodology. Do you have an issue with my criticisms beyond making assumptions about my educational background?

Literally 30 seconds of reading just the abstracts on studies on this topics shows that the experts have considered all your “criticisms,” because of course they have, because they’re obvious and trite criticisms that would be the first thing someone would use to try to hand wave away an entire field of study as “women with an axe to grind.” Hell, the first couple studies I find are ones doing exactly what you ask for - logging exactly what they did and for how long, with pretty serious self-criticism of the inherent flaws in that approach. Basically, the “women with an axe to grind” have approached this question with some pretty serious rigor.

Given the right mixture of economic conditions juxtaposed with socially acceptable excuses, women will opt out of the workforce at an extremely high rate.

So what I'm saying is that the underlying tones for women to obtain and maintain a career is a mixture of economic necessity and pressure from other women.

Not sure what to say to that besides… yikes. And I guess show your work.

 

[Spekkio]

Allow me to rephrase:

The difference in time spent doing household chores among working men and working women is not that large.

Anything that says otherwise is from biased organizations like "Gender Equity Police."

It is simply not a true statement that men have not picked up the slack in household chores. It's something people just say and assume to be true. Read past the abstracts and you'll find shoddy methodologies because there are plenty of enraged undergrads and grad students ready to perform "research" on the topic and plenty of non-profits willing to sponsor it.

Aside from the impact of working women performing fewer hours on average doing paid labor, I postulate that further research should explore if the higher efficiency of the average male body at performing manual labor is a significant contributing factor to the disparity in time spent doing chores. Furthermore, it should explore whether the higher frequency of women doing tasks is due to an underlying gender difference of how to approach and solve problems rather than assuming men's outright unwillingness to do them.

I also pose that future research should focus on work output rather than time as the dependent variable. It's possible that such research could discover that men frequently do more work than women around the house, particularly when you expand the definition of "household chores" beyond strictly cooking, cleaning, and laundry.

Not sure what to say to that besides… yikes. And I guess show your work.

The full-time employment rate of military wives (35-45%) is roughly half the national rate (75-80%). Even if we throw in the 20% unemployment rate from employer discrimination against hiring a transient, you still are well below the gen pop.