Foreign A/C carriers

[phrogdriver]

I actually heard, and bear with me for this could be incorrect, that the russians toyed with catapults system for a while and actually got somewhere with it. Unfortunately, the Russians could never figure out how we stopped the....shuttle at the end of the deck. They couldnt figure it out and it would continue and rip itself out of the carrier itself....and i dont think it was intended to do so.

~X

Sounds more likely a product of notoriously shoddy Russian workmanship, rather than a technical problem.

 

[East]

Hr.Ms. Karel Doorman

The Veinticinco De Mayo (25 de Mayo or 25th of May) was withdrawn from service and laid up in 1993 when plans to refit her for continued service never came through. She subsequently left Argentina in Dec 98 to be scraped in India. Brazil obtained some of the equipment from the 25 de Mayo for her "sister" ship 'Minas Generias' (formerly HMS Vengeance) that operated former Kuwaiti A-4 Skyhawks. 26 de Mayo operated Skyhawks and Super Etendards. She came very close to launching an A-4 strike against the British during the Falklands conflict but could not get sufficient WoD and retired to safe harbor due to torpedo threat after their crusier (Gen Belgrano) was sunk by a Brit sub. The Super Etendards were still breand new and not ready for carrier ops so they operated from shore instead and were joined by the Navy Skyhawks (note: Air Force also operated Skyhawks as well). A4s would be in hog heaven!

25 de Mayo was actually the last carrier of the Royal Netherlands Navy (R81) called "Hr. Ms. Karel Doorman" named after the Rear Admiral who fought himself to death to the Japanese Navy in the Pacific in WWII.
In 1968 there was a huge fire while in port (Rotterdam), damaging a great part of the engine room. The ship was sold to Argentina shortly after that. Due to the new role within the NATO, the RNLN got the ASW role and continued to contribute to this role with MPA like the P2V7B Neptune, The Brequet Atlantique and the P-3C update III Orion airframes.

During the Falkland war British submarines were outside port waiting for the 25 de Mayo, but the Argentinians feared the loss of their Carrier so it stayed in port. My dad served for 7 years in total on-board of this boat in his naval carreer as NFO, and to his relief it did not anticipate in the war. It would definately be sunk by British forces.

 

[HeyJoe]

During the Falkland war British submarines were outside port waiting for the 25 de Mayo, but the Argentinians feared the loss of their Carrier so it stayed in port. My dad served for 7 years in total on-board of this boat in his naval carreer as NFO, and to his relief it did not anticipate in the war. It would definately be sunk by British forces.

The 25 de Mayo did make it to sea and had a strike group of Skyhawks armed and ready to launch when the winds died. They could have launched without ordnance, but not with it so they retired to safety.

Timeline as follows:

May 1, 1982:
British forces commenced combat operations in vicinity of Flaklands/Malvinas with initial bombardment of targets in islands.

May 2, 1982:
British Fleet and Argentine Naval Forces within striking range of each other with Argentine Task Force 40 positioned northwest and British Task Force northeast of the Malvinas Islands / Falkland Islands. Third Escuadrilla A-4Q Skyhawks on 25 de Mayo aircraft carrier were at maximum alert and readied to launch a strike against the British Fleet with hopes of hitting a British carrier. When the distance was rightn the winds were not and the A-4Q Skyhawks were unable to launch because there was not enough wind down the flight deck for the bomb-laden Skyhawks to get airborne. This mission was postponed several times because of the wind down the deck problem and in hopes of getting favorable wind. The wind situation never improved and the British Task Force eventually steamed out of the range of the Skyhawks. While steaming away from the British task force, The General Belgrano was being tailed by a British sub. HMS Conqueror fired three conventional "straight running" Mk 8 mod 4 torpedoes, each with an 800 lb (363 kg) Torpex warhead, two of which hit the General Belgrano. Damage control efforts fail to save the Former USS Phoenix, a Pearl Harbor survivor and she is lost with 323 hands. Though the ship was heading away from the Falkland islands, it had been moving towards the British Task Force all the previous day, and had only turned around because an airstrike on the taskforce was cancelled because there was not enough wind to launch planes from the aircraft carrier operating to the north of the Falklands. The ship had in fact been ordered back towards the coast to wait for more favorable conditions for an attack.

May 5, 1982:
Decision was made to return to port. The Third Escuadrilla flew nine air defense missions armed with AIM-9B air-to-air missiles. British bogies had been detected by Argentine Navy Destroyer radar but no contact took place with the Sea Harriers.

May 9, 1982:
All eight A-4Q Skyhawks and 12 pilots of the Third Escuadrilla flew to the Argentine Navy Río Grande Base in Tierra del Fuego State and operated from there for duration of conflict.

 

[HeyJoe]

25 de Mayo history

25 de Mayo was actually the last carrier of the Royal Netherlands Navy (R81) called "Hr. Ms. Karel Doorman" named after the Rear Admiral who fought himself to death to the Japanese Navy in the Pacific in WWII.
In 1968 there was a huge fire while in port (Rotterdam), damaging a great part of the engine room. The ship was sold to Argentina shortly after that.

Forgot the stint with the Netherlands...but 25 de Mayo was orginally a British light carrier put into commission as HMS Venerable:

Built by Cammell Laird shipyard in UK
Laid down 3rd December 1942
Launched 30th December 1943.
Commissioned 17th January 1945.
Sold to the Netherlands as HrMs Karel Doorman in May 1958. Reconstructed 1955-1958 with 8 degree angled deck. Removed from Dutch service April 1968after boiler room fire. Sold to Argentina and renamed 25 de Mayo and refitted with replacement boilers from the incomplete HMS Leviathan. Commissioned into Argentine Navy 22 August 1969.

 

[Hozer]

Charles de Gaulle

More snippets...
The Frogs have had some real issues with CdG. It threw a blade in 2001, it's engineering plant is notoriously underperforming and severely limits anything like "cyclic" ops we perform. It's slow (hell, even JFK did 32 knots last week!-decomm my rear end!)
The angle was too short for a Hawkeye if it caught the three wire, the plane couldn't safely execute the right turn from the runout (yes, their C-13's are directly compatible with US launch bars) and had to be extended several meters.
As stated above, it takes boo-koo bucks to operate and a simply irreplaceable amount of corporate knowledge to operate one of these ships.

 

[raptor10]

Their French government also faced lawsuits after a faulty reactor installation led to the CdG crew being exposed to 5 times the planned amount of radiation.

Though it´s probably easier to land at night on a ship that glows in the dark...

The only downside is that it fvcks up your night vision...

 

[Swmtb]

With all that radiation at least there will be more French girls than guys in about 10-20 years...

 

[Coota0]

With all that radiation at least there will be more French girls than guys in about 10-20 years...

I guess you like your women hairy.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

Their French government also faced lawsuits after a faulty reactor installation led to the CdG crew being exposed to 5 times the planned amount of radiation.

Though it´s probably easier to land at night on a ship that glows in the dark...

Which would mean what? How much is 5x the planned amount of radiation? You get more radiation by standing out in the sun than what is allowed by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) in working around our reactors. If people had to wear TLD's and get them checked quarterly, they would probably freak out.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

I only know what I´ve read. It´s in the second-to-last sentence of this article:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/cdg.htm

I understand. But I'm hoping as a future Intel Officer, you don't just rely on what you've read, but rather, what is true. Knowing the difference is really a matter of experience.

 

[HeyJoe]

You read it where?

I understand. But I'm hoping as a future Intel Officer, you don't just rely on what you've read, but rather, what is true. Knowing the difference is really a matter of experience.

The Intel Instructors will beat the term "hearsay" into you before you're done. Basically, if it's not through channels...it's "Hearsay" and that especially means open source articles*

*Of course, I'd be first to say to read all you can....like Steve says, the trick is sorting the wheat from the chaff

 

[Brett327]

I understand. But I'm hoping as a future Intel Officer, you don't just rely on what you've read, but rather, what is true. Knowing the difference is really a matter of experience.

And why, pray tell, would Intel Os suddenly start doing that?

Brett

 

[Steve Wilkins]

Well, no reason. But if we here at AW can get Intel O's to pay attention to reality, then maybe the rest of the fleet will have a fighting chance.