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For the SWOs and FOs who feel they missed their calling...

Uncle Fester

Uncle Fester

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I still don't get the perceived necessity driving this program. As the ALPA rep quoted said, there are thousands of qualified pilots applying already. What's the point of growing your own?
 
wink

wink

War Hoover NFO.
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You control the process and standardize the product? Still don't see the point at this time. Maybe someday.
 
Uncle Fester

Uncle Fester

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wink said:
You control the process and standardize the product? Still don't see the point at this time. Maybe someday.
Click to expand...

I saw something about this program pop up the other day. Is JB still pushing ahead with this?
 
D

Deleted member 24525

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wink said:
You control the process and standardize the product? Still don't see the point at this time. Maybe someday.
Click to expand...

Uncle Fester said:
I still don't get the perceived necessity driving this program. As the ALPA rep quoted said, there are thousands of qualified pilots applying already. What's the point of growing your own?
Click to expand...

JetBlue is all about "Culture"
Read Flying High and Blue Streak...both books mention unionization as a failure....unionization is not a failure, but a normal step in the life cycle of employee groups who are repeatedly taken advantage of and guilted into flying, not calling fatigued asking for wages that increase with the cost of living etc.

The Ab Initio program does two things
1. It injects that "Blue Juice" from the beginning, thus ensuring that, down the line, the employees have the weight of the company in the back of their mind when they, call in sick, call in fatigued, negotiate a new contract etc....Culture is a dogwhistle for working cheap but "happy"...that being said, JetBlue has been losing a lot of pilots to the legacies (UAL, AA, DAL)...they need to get that koolaidd early so one feels "guilty" for leaving.. Their Chief Pilots are also known for calling guys out on the carpet for giving recommendations to newhires who then quit for greener pastures.

2. This progam will make JetBlue a lot of money. They will charge you for their "flight school" where you take out student loans with interest, and sign a long contract. Training contracts haven't worked in the past and have been challenged by the courts, however, I am sure these will be ironclad and will be nothing more than indentured servitude

Make no mistake, it is about union busting and it is about money pure and simple.
 
wink

wink

War Hoover NFO.
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I didn't read up on this program until just now. I thought it was like the European model, not pay to fly. If you have to pay it is nothing more than a glorified pay to fly program with a guarantee of an interview down the road. BFD! Versions of this have been around for some time.

I hardly see it as union busting. They can't mind control anyone. For God's sake. They are paying for the training. I don't see how anyone can feel especially endebted to the company. I am sure, as said above, it is simply a profit center.
 
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D

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wink said:
I didn't read up on this program until just now. I thought it was like the European model, not pay to fly. If you have to pay it is nothing more than a glorified pay to fly program with a guarantee of an interview down the road. BFD! Versions of this have been around for some time.

I hardly see it as union busting. They can't mind control anyone. For God's sake. They are paying for the training. I don't see how anyone can feel especially endebted to the company. I am sure, as said above, it is simply a profit center.
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Seriously, think about why that might be.
Thy want pilots who are naive to the industry...of that, I have no doubt.

In all serious, spend about an hour reading through and doing internet searches about JB and their union busting techniques.
They fought hard to prevent getting ALPA on property.

When these other mil guys leave the Navy, USMC, they’re not longer in the military. They’re in a union. A lot of military guys (myself included) THINK they’re anti-union, then you get out and see the reality.
There’s a constant and continuous battle to keep unions at bay.
 
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wink

wink

War Hoover NFO.
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Nasty Flyer said:
Seriously, think about why that might be.
Thy want pilots who are naive to the industry...of that, I have no doubt.
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Seriously, you think JB management is naive? How long will it take a new hire pilot to figure it out when he starts flying the line? If he is bleeding blue after 12 months on the line then it just isn't that bad. If this is union busting, it is bush league. How do you bust the union with and insignificant percent of pilots who have no seniority/gravitas?
 
D

Deleted member 24525

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In 15-20, 25 years where do you think they plan on getting the bulk of their pilots?
Do you think it will be regional guys with baggage that comes from years of bad blood? Or do you think it comes from military guys and ab initio Guys?
JB mgmt is not naive which is exactly why they’re doing this....why do you think they like to hire retired cops and fireman for their FAs?
 
wink

wink

War Hoover NFO.
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Cops and fire fighters are strongly union. I simply disagree with you. Your theory is not logical. A union is a cost of doing business. That is all. It isn't a struggle between good and evil. When all of your competition is unionized it isn't a liability. The most successful airlines, if there is such a thing, are union. Only truly full throated effort to bust an airline union ended up badly for that company. I predict that not only will this program not threaten the union, it won't even exist in a couple years.
 
D

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wink said:
Cops and fire fighters are strongly union. I simply disagree with you. Your theory is not logical. A union is a cost of doing business. That is all. It isn't a struggle between good and evil. When all of your competition is unionized it isn't a liability. The most successful airlines, if there is such a thing, are union. Only truly full throated effort to bust an airline union ended up badly for that company. I predict that not only will this program not threaten the union, it won't even exist in a couple years.
Click to expand...

Read those books...go to talk to some guys at JB.
 
wink

wink

War Hoover NFO.
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Nasty Flyer said:
Read those books...go to talk to some guys at JB.
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Won't change basic logic. Not saying JB doesn't have employee relations issues. I am saying the notion this program is born to bust a union is idiotic.
 
D

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wink said:
Won't change basic logic. Not saying JB doesn't have employee relations issues. I am saying the notion this program is born to bust a union is idiotic.
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I cited 3 reasons. One of them being to preserve their culture...then ask yourself what is meant by that.
 
wink

wink

War Hoover NFO.
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My wife just left a business she founded and was making lots of money at because the culture had changed. It was not what she established and fostered for 5 years. I know very well what business culture means. And it is certainly not a dog whistle for union-busting. What do you think of when people talk about Southwest's culture? I bet it ain't union busting. Let me ask you, what is ALPAs culture? When speaking of it, do you mean anti business burn down the company?
 
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