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FNAEB or Voluntarily Terminate Flight Status..?
- Thread starter Riptide80
- Start date
Before there is a FW vs. RW flight time battle, I'll touch on the MIL air failure = no airline job discussion.
I know a person who attrited twice from primary (Once at Whiting, then started from scratch in Corpus and attrited again). Switched communities in the USN, picked up civilian pilot certificates and ratings. Left the USN and got hired by the Army NG to fly helicopters.
Graduated from Army flight school and eventually hired at a regional. Failed out of training at first regional (despite a few of my buds going to bat for her prior to learning of her USN flight school debacle). Got hired at a second regional.
The OP's friend got winged hinting that "he" is somewhat squared away and has been through more screening than the average civilian pilot. Case in point the 24 year old regional airline new hire I met hanging at the gliderport a few weekends ago. Said he's "Done his share of flying turboprops, and if he doesn't get the CRJ or ERJ he's going to quit." This came shortly after he said, "Airline flying is the best flying out there." His fair share of turboprop flying was 2.5 years in the right seat of a 1900D.
Yes I think the OP's friend could get a regional airline job, and in turn have a successful career in the airlines.
Now back to your FW/RW flight time debate.
I know a person who attrited twice from primary (Once at Whiting, then started from scratch in Corpus and attrited again). Switched communities in the USN, picked up civilian pilot certificates and ratings. Left the USN and got hired by the Army NG to fly helicopters.
Graduated from Army flight school and eventually hired at a regional. Failed out of training at first regional (despite a few of my buds going to bat for her prior to learning of her USN flight school debacle). Got hired at a second regional.
The OP's friend got winged hinting that "he" is somewhat squared away and has been through more screening than the average civilian pilot. Case in point the 24 year old regional airline new hire I met hanging at the gliderport a few weekends ago. Said he's "Done his share of flying turboprops, and if he doesn't get the CRJ or ERJ he's going to quit." This came shortly after he said, "Airline flying is the best flying out there." His fair share of turboprop flying was 2.5 years in the right seat of a 1900D.
Yes I think the OP's friend could get a regional airline job, and in turn have a successful career in the airlines.
Now back to your FW/RW flight time debate.
^ and everything you just said scares the hell out of me. What the regionals will hire.... See Colgan.
If you coinsider never getting to a major airline as successful. Plus with this training pattern, I doubt he/she would last more than a few years at a regional. Get hired, possible. Keep the job with the yearly or 2x yearly checkrides - porbably not. Normally there is a limit to the amount of times you can piss away a checkride.
But you hit the nail on the head why I don't let my daughter fly on regional airlines.
Slippery slope on defining success. Regional airline captains who didn't get the job offer from UAL in APR '08 are happy they weren't hired then furloughed in training a few weeks later (and lose seniority at their previous company). Some might be content with being a senior captain at Island Air ($100/hr year 20) vice shivering in NY as a new higher FO sitting reserve at the bottom of an 11,000 pilot seniority list.
I'd rather sit the bench on varsity than be a star on JV, but others might find it appealing to have a good schedule at a senior domicile.
Still haven't heard if the OP's friend is suffering from poor performance or low morale/motivation. Big difference between the two. If it's motivation, he might also struggle to survive in the "I'll fly for food", living in a van at LAX's econo lot, civilian aviation career field.
Aloha,
Enzed
Is he getting FNAEB'd because he routinely flies at 20' AGL?
Kaman
Beech 1900 pilot's; "Fly it like you stole it"
Colgan pilot here...Don't even get me started on major airline "stupid pilot tricks"...3407? HEINOUS accident without a doubt. Captain that was deadheading in the back was a good friend of mine. Please don't throw rocks when you don't know what you are talking about...Going thru Q-400 training as we speak! Hope to see some of you aboard one of my flights...I will be the guy with the 2000 hour Sikorsky pin!
Nothing disrespectful was said or implied about the tragic loss of your friend. The point remains that Colgan was shown to have used extremely low hiring standards in the not too distant pass. Not throwing rocks about something I don't know about - coincidentally this mishap was the subject of a 37 page original research presentation concerning organizational safety that I completed as a requirement for a graduate degree.
Most regionals have extremely low hiring standards and the young, inexperienced pilots that go with these standards. Throw in the "shiny jet syndrome" and the willingness to work for pathetic wages, and you get what is to me a scary outcome. While it is true most of these guys mature and gain experience without accident/incident, there are too many "youngsters" that scare the shit out of me and you never know who is flying the plane. As I said, I won't let my daughter fly on a regional, I encourage my brother, his family and parents not too.
I also don't jump seat on regionals anymore. I've sat in too many RJ cockpits and watched the Captain basically fly the plane single piloted because the FO barely had the knowledge to raise the flaps & gear. I've also seen some pretty shaky Captains while on the jump seat. So my opinions are also based on first hand observation.
I also don't jump seat on regionals anymore. I've sat in too many RJ cockpits and watched the Captain basically fly the plane single piloted because the FO barely had the knowledge to raise the flaps & gear. I've also seen some pretty shaky Captains while on the jump seat. So my opinions are also based on first hand observation.
In the case of the guy I know, he was a qualified 2P and ready for aircraft commander but did not want to even try to make the leap. I also know of a pilot that showed up to the FRS, had one sim and similarly requested to have her flight status revoked. <shrug> It happens, I suppose.
Riptide80
Member
It sounds more like low morale and lack of motivation, sadly common these days. Not a pilot, so looking for the expert opinions of some professional pilots and Naval Aviators, as I'm fairly certain my Cessna time doesn't count! I sometimes wonder if the thought of them yanking his wings off his chest is the only thing that's keeping him from voluntarily terminating his flight status. He has changed a little and I can't really get inside his head right now.
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
FWIW about the FNAEB/FFPB if you voluntarily terminate flight status (I was wrong before):
The Assignment, Classification, and Travel Systems Manual (ACTS Man) spells out the "hows" for those who voluntarily terminate flight status. It is covered under the same chapter as the FFPB et al, but a completely separate section. Here's what it says:
MCO P1000.6g Para 1213
c. Aeronautically designated personnel who request termination of
assignment to duty in a flying status will be processed as follows:
(1) The commanding officer will immediately suspend the ADP from duty
in a flying status and direct him/her to submit, within 5 days, an official
request for termination to the CMC (ASM) via the chain of command.
(2) This request will include a list of three MOS’s in the order of
preference.
(3) A report on the case by a flight surgeon will accompany the
request.
(4) The effective date of the suspension of flight status will be
included in the commanding officer’s endorsement and will be used as the
effective date for termination of ACIP.
(5) Commanding officers will counsel Marines concerned that a
voluntary termination of flight status is considered permanent by the CMC and
requests for reinstatement will not normally be approved.
The Assignment, Classification, and Travel Systems Manual (ACTS Man) spells out the "hows" for those who voluntarily terminate flight status. It is covered under the same chapter as the FFPB et al, but a completely separate section. Here's what it says:
MCO P1000.6g Para 1213
c. Aeronautically designated personnel who request termination of
assignment to duty in a flying status will be processed as follows:
(1) The commanding officer will immediately suspend the ADP from duty
in a flying status and direct him/her to submit, within 5 days, an official
request for termination to the CMC (ASM) via the chain of command.
(2) This request will include a list of three MOS’s in the order of
preference.
(3) A report on the case by a flight surgeon will accompany the
request.
(4) The effective date of the suspension of flight status will be
included in the commanding officer’s endorsement and will be used as the
effective date for termination of ACIP.
(5) Commanding officers will counsel Marines concerned that a
voluntary termination of flight status is considered permanent by the CMC and
requests for reinstatement will not normally be approved.