FNAEB or Voluntarily Terminate Flight Status..?

[Banjo33]

The pilot who balled it up and then lied about it got his wings yanked.

I didn't know that his wingman quit over it. Was that a "quit before they yanked them too" decision?

I know both of those guys, but possibly not the other guy you said voluntarily quit.

We may not be talking about the same two. I'm almost certain these two kept there wings, but they were sent packing together (I only know of one "voluntary", but that was after he was promised a transition...which fell through and subsequently screwed him out of his current community too.). This the x-country crew we're talking about?

A4s...I have no idea!

 

[Brett327]

I still don't see how you can apply a blanket statement that quiting in naval aviation is a career killer in the civilian world.

I do, here's why: Quitting or FNAEB for a first tour JO usually involves one (or both) of the following - Lack of piloting skills or poor decision-making skills. Are there exceptions? Of course, but we have to make some assumptions based on the information given, then make a blanket statement that is going to cover about 90% of the cases.

So, back to the original issue. Why would any potential employer want someone who has likely demonstrated a deficiency in piloting skills or decision-making? Could the guy get hired as a CFI at some FBO somewhere? Perhaps, but in an industry where the pool of available labor far exceeds the demand, that FBO (or airline) can afford to be picky.

Those of us who have been around the block a few times have seen this type of situation over and over again. The vast majority of these people just don't belong in aviation - They just don't have "it."

Brett

 

[FlyBoyd]

Question from an online Airline Application...

"Have you ever been called before a Field Board of Investigations for any reason (FNAB, FEB, SIB, etc.)?"

With the number of qualified applicants going through the process, answering "yes" would most likely put you on the "do not call" list.

 

[JD81]

I'm certainly no salty dog but in the wide spectrum of FNAEB causing events there has to undoubtedly be ones that are not show stoppers for airline gigs. Now that's not to say if you answered yes to that question that you wouldn't raise an eyebrow or five, but I know of several FNAEB's resulting in keeping wings but losing flight status where there was so much circumstantial stuff going on around it that "can't hack it" and "poor decision making" type findings could be immediately ruled out of the equation.

 

[Harrier Dude]

PM inbound.

Long story short, I was there, know him well, and have seen/talked to him several times since he got out.

I know the full story, but will only share it with those who are on my short "trust list".

 

[phrogdriver]

Question from an online Airline Application...

"Have you ever been called before a Field Board of Investigations for any reason (FNAB, FEB, SIB, etc.)?"

With the number of qualified applicants going through the process, answering "yes" would most likely put you on the "do not call" list.

Considering that any Class A rates an automatic FFPB, that's kind of a screw job, if you ask me.

 

[JD81]

Considering that any Class A rates an automatic FFPB, that's kind of a screw job, if you ask me.

That was along what I was thinking. If a dude has an engine explode on his airplane/helo and handles it IAW NATOPS, it then turns into class A because of damage, he's gonna get a FNAEB by default yes? Wouldn't that show that this applicant may be someone they would want to hire since he has demonstrated good headwork and procedures?

 

[A4sForever]

... If a dude has an engine explode on his airplane/helo and handles it IAW NATOPS, it then turns into class A because of damage, he's gonna get a FNAEB by default yes? Wouldn't that show that this applicant may be someone they would want to hire since he has demonstrated good headwork and procedures?

Airline interviewing and hiring doesn't work that way ... i.e., it's not cut & dried to the point of: "if you have a 'speedy board', you're automatically dis-invited". Most airline hiring (especially today) is driven by HR types (it used to be exclusively handled by Flight Ops types) and these HR boys & girls frequently don't know squat about flying. But again ... it doesn't work that way. It's usually more objective than a quick cut & dried answer to every situation. Thank God for pilot types still present in the interview/hire process ...

I had more than one NAVAIR engine quit on me -- one while flying a S/E bird. They didn't result in speedy board(s), but nevertheless, since I had answered 'honestly' on the application and interview(s), those situations were 'discussed' at airline interviews.

The result?? I worked for 3 airlines (got hired by a few more) and flew the Big Iron across the Pacific in the left $eat ...

The guy who started this thread is talkin' about 'voluntarily' quitting flyin' ... BIG DIFFERENCE.

 

[Brett327]

A little rudder here...

The OP (presumably) isn't talking about a FNAEB because of a mishap or incident where someone crossed the line/broke the rules, as many of you now are. It sounds like a classic case of performance related, "should I quit before I get fired." The nuances of the FNAEB may be lost on some (including those doing the hiring on the civilian side), but an informed HR guy is going to know the difference between a board that resulted from a mishap where aircrew error wasn't a factor, and one where it was clear that the individual fucked something up.

Brett

 

[JD81]

Airline interviewing and hiring doesn't work that way ... i.e., it's not cut & dried to the point of: "if you have a 'speedy board', you're automatically dis-invited". Most airline hiring (especially today) is driven by HR types (it used to be exclusively handled by Flight Ops types) and these HR boys & girls frequently don't know squat about flying. But again ... it doesn't work that way. It's usually more objective than a quick cut & dried answer to every situation. Thank God for pilot types still present in the interview/hire process ...

I had more than one NAVAIR engine quit on me -- one while flying a S/E bird. They didn't result in speedy board(s), but nevertheless, since I had answered 'honestly' on the application and interview(s), those situations were 'discussed' at airline interviews.

The result?? I worked for 3 airlines (got hired by a few more) and flew the Big Iron across the Pacific in the left $eat ...

The guy who started this thread is talkin' about 'voluntarily' quitting flyin' ... BIG DIFFERENCE.

Understood about the quitting vice other situations. I would hope there would be a pilot type in the room during the interview to field those kinds of questions.

 

[phrogdriver]

Honestly, now we're just trying to learn something for ourselves--screw that guy.

Anyway, for the OP, unless your friend wrecked a plane while texting and taking swigs of Nyquil, a FNAEB might not actually take his wings. Unless you can be specific, no one can say. Now, whether he'll actually stay flying is another matter entirely. He might end up being the Assistant MWR Officer and count basketballs for the rest of his time. Who knows?

Now, if he gives up his wings, or rather, asks to be taken off flight status, he may still rate the insignia, but he's basically already given himself the worst punishment a FNAEB could have given in the first place. It's like going to your own murder trial, pleading guilty, and requesting the death penalty before the cute female DA can even give her opening statement.

That said, if someone requests out of flight status, barring some extraordinary circumstance, he should take off his wings, whether required or not. On my first pump, the Ship's SuppO was one of those--she had pulled a Cougar after a difficult night landing on the boat in a SH-60B (really!), and was now a chop. She still wore wings and kept wanting to talk to us about pilot stuff. "Uhh, yeah, gotta go...'Firebirds' is on ship's TV again, and I just love seeing Nick Cage scream 'I am the greatest!'"

 

[KBayDog]

"Uhh, yeah, gotta go...'Firebirds' is on ship's TV again, and I just love seeing Nick Cage scream 'I am the greatest!'"

Whoa, whoa, whoa - Lay off the Haterade, player! Cage is, quite simply, the most versatile actor to ever grace this planet.

"That man's a national treasure."

 

[Recovering LSO]

That was along what I was thinking. If a dude has an engine explode on his airplane/helo and handles it IAW NATOPS, it then turns into class A because of damage, he's gonna get a FNAEB by default yes? Wouldn't that show that this applicant may be someone they would want to hire since he has demonstrated good headwork and procedures?

FNAEBS can be waived in the event of "it just blew". Rare, but have seen it happen on a few occasions. Prowler engine came apart and trashed the other back in '06 on a low level. Nothing the crew had time to do other than pull the handles. FNAEB waived. That waiver request goes to the Air Boss (COS) for approval.

 

[Riptide80]

Wow thanks for all the info guys! Sorry been away. (CAUTION = Thread-Jacker) I don't know if the airline question is even an option for him (SH-60's) as I have a few friends in helo's that have retired and are stuggling to get in with the majors because they're not honoring their helo hours as "fixed-wing" flight time which is B.S. Don't you think that the margin for error (20 feet off the water) for a helicopter pilot is much less than what most fixed-wing guys face on a daily basis? Note I said "most" and not all. So it's a combination of few fixed wing hours and a potential vol term. He wants to do something else for now, and as we all know having too many irons in the fire right now could spell doom later on (i.e. leaving flying now could make it hard to get back into it on the civilian side someday).

A4's, your info is the best and I always learn something from reading your posts!

 

[Gatordev]

Don't you think that the margin for error (20 feet off the water) for a helicopter pilot is much less than what most fixed-wing guys face on a daily basis?

Um, no.