Flying clubs / General Aviation

[Calvin]

So a friend who was in the Navy way back in the 1970s/80s, and he told me that there were times when he would commute for his tour at the base via a general aviation airplane, I think it was a Mooney. My question is, if I do in fact make it to be a naval aviator, flying land-based maritime aircraft (my goal), would it ever be possible to do the same, i.e. fly my plane to the base in order to arrive for duty? Can this still be done, and does anybody actually do this?

Also, does the Navy/ Air Force still operate flying clubs or something akin to that for military aviators?

 

[P3 F0]

There are still some flying clubs around, but chances are, you're not going to commute that way. It makes no sense. You're going to live within an hour or so of base, and will need a very reliable way to get there. As to whether you could fly your own aircraft into any particular base and park there--not sure about what local or DoD regs might say about it, if anything, beyond wanting a PPR.

Do you have any idea what is even required for you to own an aircraft? There's a large cost associated with it--not just in terms of money.

 

[Calvin]

Yes I see. Well, thanks. My friend, I believe, would only fly to the base for the beginning of a deployment, not every day. And yes, I do know the requirements of owning one's personal airplane, cost of annuals, fuel, broken things, etc. I was just curious to see if this was even an option anymore.

 

[e6bflyer]

Yes I see. Well, thanks. My friend, I believe, would only fly to the base for the beginning of a deployment, not every day. And yes, I do know the requirements of owning one's personal airplane, cost of annuals, fuel, broken things, etc. I was just curious to see if this was even an option anymore.

 

[Brett327]

I can imagine approximately zero scenarios where it would make practical sense to commute to work via GA.

 

[wink]

I can imagine approximately zero scenarios where it would make practical sense to commute to work via GA.

It doesn't make sense to own a 65hp two seat airplane with limited range. Doesn't make sense to fly a 4 seat $90k airplane to breakfast 20 miles away. Wouldn't make sense for me to fly 280 miles to my airline domicile to start work at a cost of $180 plus ties down fee when I can fly on an airliner for free. There just is no sense in why/where/what some of us fly.

 

[Renegade One]

I can imagine approximately zero scenarios where it would make practical sense to commute to work via GA.

Concur. Now add to that the AT/FP prohibitions concerning civilian GA aircraft routinely coming and going on a daily basis.

Short version: Fuggedaboudit!

 

[Gatordev]

Concur. Now add to that the AT/FP prohibitions concerning civilian GA aircraft routinely coming and going on a daily basis.

That actually happens every day all over the country. As others have said, though, the issue is going to be Base Ops letting you do it and/or having ramp space, which often times they don't.

I know of occasional visits to a base in a privately owned GA aircraft, usually by a contractor who knows Base Ops, but it's not an every day thing. I was trying to encourage one of our SELRES at my last squadron to fly her Cirrus in during a drill weekend, but I don't think she was comfortable trying to wade through the red tape since she wasn't an aviator. I told her I'd help for a lap around the pattern, but it never happened.

 

[jcj]

Unfortunately, the aero clubs are drying up although there are some left - particularly at some AFB's. Some bases have them at a nearby GA airport rather than on base.

Here's a link to a list of Navy Flying Clubs http://www.cnic.navy.mil/ffr/fleet_..._programs/flying_clubs/program_directory.html

Here's the USAF Aero Club list https://www.usafservices.com/Managers/AeroClubs/LinksDirectory.aspx

I don't know how current these lists are.

If there is an active aero club on the field you can usually fly GA & park there - particularly if you are member of an aero club somewhere (they reciprocate with other clubs). But unless it's off base at a nearby GA field, it's still on a military airfield with military regulations & restrictions, and lots of aircraft with higher priority than the aero club. You can't just get a "pop-up" clearance from the TRACON, land & park/deplane at the FBO without advance notice on a 24/7 basis (like you can at most civilian airports).

I have also heard of AD members being permitted to fly GA aircraft onto some airfields without an aero club. If you're somewhere that allows this, there's some complicated details involved - you'll need to obtain a Civil Aircraft Landing Permit (DD Form 2401) and usually have a PPR. You'll probably also need these at an aero club owning base if you're flying a private (i.e. non aero club) aircraft.

One other thing to consider is transient service. Bases with an aero club will usually have AVGAS, a GA mechanic and other "FBO-like" services. Bases without an aero club usually have no fuel or other services for GA aircraft. I've flown GA aircraft onto NFW and LRF, neither have any GA services. You have to plan in advance for the "no fuel or services" problem. And some bases don't allow GA at all, presumably because GA would disrupt the mil traffic or for AT/FP considerations.

As a former aircraft owner and as much as I still like to fly GA, I agree with the previous posters that it's expensive and impractical. It's also a problem if you have an inflexible travel schedule and bad weather. I'm sure you've thought this through, but there is some weather that can be safely negotiated by airline or military aircraft but is unsafe for GA. You know the saying: 'got time to spare? go by air..."

With all that said, the Aero club/NFC is about the best value available in GA today. Good luck.

 

[Calvin]

Unfortunately, the aero clubs are drying up although there are some left - particularly at some AFB's. Some bases have them at a nearby GA airport rather than on base.

Here's a link to a list of Navy Flying Clubs http://www.cnic.navy.mil/ffr/fleet_..._programs/flying_clubs/program_directory.html

Here's the USAF Aero Club list https://www.usafservices.com/Managers/AeroClubs/LinksDirectory.aspx

I don't know how current these lists are.

If there is an active aero club on the field you can usually fly GA & park there - particularly if you are member of an aero club somewhere (they reciprocate with other clubs). But unless it's off base at a nearby GA field, it's still on a military airfield with military regulations & restrictions, and lots of aircraft with higher priority than the aero club. You can't just get a "pop-up" clearance from the TRACON, land & park/deplane at the FBO without advance notice on a 24/7 basis (like you can at most civilian airports).

I have also heard of AD members being permitted to fly GA aircraft onto some airfields without an aero club. If you're somewhere that allows this, there's some complicated details involved - you'll need to obtain a Civil Aircraft Landing Permit (DD Form 2401) and usually have a PPR. You'll probably also need these at an aero club owning base if you're flying a private (i.e. non aero club) aircraft.

One other thing to consider is transient service. Bases with an aero club will usually have AVGAS, a GA mechanic and other "FBO-like" services. Bases without an aero club usually have no fuel or other services for GA aircraft. I've flown GA aircraft onto NFW and LRF, neither have any GA services. You have to plan in advance for the "no fuel or services" problem. And some bases don't allow GA at all, presumably because GA would disrupt the mil traffic or for AT/FP considerations.

As a former aircraft owner and as much as I still like to fly GA, I agree with the previous posters that it's expensive and impractical. It's also a problem if you have an inflexible travel schedule and bad weather. I'm sure you've thought this through, but there is some weather that can be safely negotiated by airline or military aircraft but is unsafe for GA. You know the saying: 'got time to spare? go by air..."

With all that said, the Aero club/NFC is about the best value available in GA today. Good luck.

Thanks for this more in-depth information, I appreciate the effort you put in. Again, as a private pilot myself, I understand what GA flying entails, I spent my life savings to get the license, and much of the money I make at work today goes to flying, getting time and ratings to hone my experience. I was simply curious, mainly because of my family friend's previous experience. I obviously realize that commuting via a GA airplane on a daily or weekly basis would be costly, and make little sense, but I always thought of my friend's stories as an interesting way to get there if you'd be in a place for several weeks or months. So thank you again for the answer!

 

[MIDNJAC]

The big issue is that I'd guess your friend was perhaps a drilling reservist when his GA commuting took place. Today, and likely back then, you can't just up and enter the reserves as an Aviator, like you can with the Air National Guard or the Army National Guard. So that means you will be on active duty for somewhere between 9-10 years regardless of what you fly......you have an 8 year active duty commitment following your winging, so basically add 1-2 years to that for the time you are in flight school (also on active duty), and that is your minimum active service requirement. During that time you will be expected to be at work just about every work day.......maybe not as much during flight school, but definitely every day in the fleet. Add to that detachments, deployment, etc, and you are at work a whole lot more than you are ever home for most of those 10 years. It is a misconception that has been brought up by others like yourself here in the past, that one can simply just show up for a deployment and then be home somewhere else the rest of the time. The problem is that you having ground job(s) and flying to do all year around, regardless of whether you are on deployment or not. You will have a significant amount of work for your ground job, ie leading Sailors, doing other things, and bosses that expect you to be at work every day like a normal human. You will probably also be flying or on duty most every one of those days too. Just because you are in a land based patrol squadron doesn't mean that this is different. You would still deploy, still do dets, and still be at work every day, plus at work away from home for long periods of time. Maybe one day, if you get selected for and get through flight school, get through the FRS, get through 3 tours, and are selected for the reserves, you can then, 10 years later, pick up your idea of commuting via GA aircraft to and from work for drill weekends/weeks, that being your first/earliest opportunity to do so. Until then, it is a normal 0600-2000 job Mon-Fri, sometimes on weekends, and a lot of the time every day of the week in some way or another. You will want to live close to work. You will work harder, and for many more hours per day/week/month/year than your civilian friends during that time. Nothing wrong with that, if it is what you love, but you should be prepared for the reality. It isn't a part time job where you just show up for a few days and fly and then go home.

 

[Calvin]

The big issue is that I'd guess your friend was perhaps a drilling reservist when his GA commuting took place. Today, and likely back then, you can't just up and enter the reserves as an Aviator, like you can with the Air National Guard or the Army National Guard. So that means you will be on active duty for somewhere between 9-10 years regardless of what you fly......you have an 8 year active duty commitment following your winging, so basically add 1-2 years to that for the time you are in flight school (also on active duty), and that is your minimum active service requirement. During that time you will be expected to be at work just about every work day.......maybe not as much during flight school, but definitely every day in the fleet. Add to that detachments, deployment, etc, and you are at work a whole lot more than you are ever home for most of those 10 years. It is a misconception that has been brought up by others like yourself here in the past, that one can simply just show up for a deployment and then be home somewhere else the rest of the time. The problem is that you having ground job(s) and flying to do all year around, regardless of whether you are on deployment or not. You will have a significant amount of work for your ground job, ie leading Sailors, doing other things, and bosses that expect you to be at work every day like a normal human. You will probably also be flying or on duty most every one of those days too. Just because you are in a land based patrol squadron doesn't mean that this is different. You would still deploy, still do dets, and still be at work every day, plus at work away from home for long periods of time. Maybe one day, if you get selected for and get through flight school, get through the FRS, get through 3 tours, and are selected for the reserves, you can then, 10 years later, pick up your idea of commuting via GA aircraft to and from work for drill weekends/weeks, that being your first/earliest opportunity to do so. Until then, it is a normal 0600-2000 job Mon-Fri, sometimes on weekends, and a lot of the time every day of the week in some way or another. You will want to live close to work. You will work harder, and for many more hours per day/week/month/year than your civilian friends during that time. Nothing wrong with that, if it is what you love, but you should be prepared for the reality. It isn't a part time job where you just show up for a few days and fly and then go home.

Interesting, maybe he was a reservist during that time, I wish I could ask, he died several months ago. Anyway, this doesn't discourage my dream of being a naval aviator, it just seemed like an interesting story that might have been feasible. Thanks for the info!

 

[cfam]

Unfortunately, the aero clubs are drying up although there are some left - particularly at some AFB's. Some bases have them at a nearby GA airport rather than on base.

Here's a link to a list of Navy Flying Clubs http://www.cnic.navy.mil/ffr/fleet_..._programs/flying_clubs/program_directory.html

Here's the USAF Aero Club list https://www.usafservices.com/Managers/AeroClubs/LinksDirectory.aspx

I don't know how current these lists are.

It's a semi current list. Whidbey Island's club is now closed, although most of the old instructors now work for Cascade Flying Club out of Skagit Regional Airport.

 

[robav8r]

Whidbey Island's club is now closed . . . .

That's too bad. I flew with a AW Warrant Officer (he's retired now, working for the local Sheriff) while I was stationed there. We would fly to Friday Harbor for lunch. When the weather was nice, what a spectacular view/flight. Another great deal/benefit gone . . . .

 

[Recovering LSO]

That's too bad.

I disagree. Especially when you learn the nature of the proverbial back breaking straw... I'll send a PM shortly.