Flight MH17

[BusyBee604]

To clear it up, I meant that we shouldn't just close our eyes and ignore world events, and our country's response/non-response to them (and train). It sounded like UT was suggesting we shouldn't comment on the downing of MH-17. Thus the ref. to "shut up and color". Did I misread?
BzB

 

[jarhead]

Appears it was downed by an SA-17. Things will get out of hand. I have a bad feeling about this one. Someone is flinging SAMs willy-nilly (have my thoughts on who).

More than likely an SA-11 not an SA-17. It is interesting that shortly after shooting the 777 down, the separatist Twitter feeds lit up about shooting down another Ukraine AN but then were deleted when the news of a civilian aircraft getting shot down began to break.

Video - Youtube video of supposed TELAR (missing a missile or two) heading towards Russian border.

Random video - supposed separatist convoy with what looks to be an SA-13 (dated from May) ... not really related other than it's a fairly sophisticated SAM system to be in the hands of the separatists.

S/F

 

[utswimmer37]

To clear it up, I meant that we shouldn't just close our eyes and ignore world events, and our country's response/non-response to them (and train). It sounded like UT was suggesting we shouldn't comment on the downing of MH-17. Thus the ref. to "shut up and color". Did I misread?
BzB

not close our eyes and ignore by any means, but more asking about workplace etiquette in the military. Religion, got it, preferences, got that too; when it comes to political decisions just wanst sure if we swallow the pill during the day/tour and bitch when we get home and are able take our navy hat off or if it is common place to talk about these things among coworkers. This is a forum with avatars and it's a bit easier to voice an opinion on topics; my misconception right now I think is that military is a grin and bear it mentality while on the job and complain later...i.e. bring the crayons to work.

 

[BusyBee604]

UT, we're pretty much on the same page there, common sense dictates what/when/where/with whom, when discussing sensitive issues. especially in uniform. On the internet, don't post anything you wouldn't want your Mom, or CO to read!
BzB

 

[Brett327]

One should strive to be as apolitical as possible in the workplace and while wearing the uniform. While we may or may not agree with an administration's policy, at the end of the day, it's our duty to execute when asked to do so. There's always some degree of political bantering going on in the ready room, but those who tend toward passionate partisanship usually end up making trouble for themselves.

 

[jcj]

I think this issue is going to turn out much bigger than just a Russia-(and the separatist rebels they support)-Ukraine-US issue. The majority of pax were Europeans & apparently the European countries are seriously pissed, Australia has demanded an explanation from the Russian ambassador and just to make things worse several of the pax apparently were world class HIV/AIDS researchers enroute to a worldwide scientific meeting.

Apparently this is a huge issue in the Europe news cycle, much more so than in the U.S.

There are local issues as well. The separatists now have 200+ civilian dead bodies to deal with (with no government infrastructure and a disorganized organizational structure and not exactly clear who's in charge within their own forces) from an airliner they shot down thinking it was a Ukrainian military plane, the home countries are demanding return of the remains, not to mention personal effects on the airplane, air crash investigators want to go to the scene but won't because it's Ukraine sovereign territory and Ukraine won't guarantee their safety as long as the separatists control the area. The rest of the world is demanding an international investigation which will certainly point to Russian involvement, and Russia can't really do anything about it now because anything they do will be suspect for covering things up.

This is both a major loss of face for Putin that he can't really make go away, and a serious fuck-up by the separatists that will cost them momentum and maybe the war - especially if this event prompts other countries to start sending serious military support to the Ukraine.

Of course, Israel gets a windfall here because it's a big enough event to keep the news cycle off of their ground operations in Gaza happening at the same time.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

I realize we all pretty much know what happened, but I was impressed with the work of the investigation.

Lots of lessons available from the Ukraine conflict. Some new like drones/EW. Some old like the effectiveness of artillery and... OPSEC

Here’s the other investigation for good measure.