FITREPs

[Dr. Gonzo]

I'm new to the JO FITREP (pilot) process and have some basic questions:

In general discussions about promotions/career and someone says they were a "Fleet MP", does that mean they detached as a 1/1 MP, or that they were an MP on their final competitve FITREP? My understanding is that LT competitive FITREPS are only done once, maybe twice a year with a CoC, so...you're telling me that if I'm junior enough in the pack to get an MP for the competitive cycle and my PRD/checkout is prior to the next competitive FITREP, I'm forced to walk out as a "Fleet MP" and screwed for O4 (EVEN if I get a 1/1 Detach EP)?

Sorry for the noob question, but based on my understanding above, the FITREP process seems like it can easily screw over decent guys. Is this actually how it works?

 

[ChuckM]

Generally correct. Somewhat dependent on platform and community you will see deserving individuals with unfortunate timing get extended or cut short to manage the process a little "better" should you be extended into a later summary group for an EP and someone else pulled early or on time for an MP, rest assured there was someone who they had no reservations about shooting in the face for O-4/DH. But let's be honest not everyone can or should make it. This will be more and more apparent as you see the work your peers produce.

 

[Brett327]

Haven't heard the term "fleet" applied to FITREP ranking, but what it sounds like to me is that it would describe a middle of the pack player in general terms. To your other questions, you are correct. If your high water FITREP (I.E. one where you are ranked against your peers, vice a 1/1 detaching) is an MP, then a 1/1 EP doesn't change the fact that your ranked MP was your high water FITREP. Now, your CO can add some verbiage that can mitigate to some degree if there were timing issues, but you never know how any particular board will interpret that.

Whether or not that means you're screwed for O4 depends on the promotion climate in the years ahead. Two years ago, the answer would have been an unequivocal yes, but the promotion picture is getting brighter, so I wouldn't lose hope yet.

On a side note, if your DHs and front office aren't having this discussion with you personally, they're doing you a huge disservice and I want to punch them in the throat for being shitty leaders. It's inexcusable. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk about it.

 

[robav8r]

It's actually a good thing that you are asking these questions. Some advice: read the FITREP instruction from cover to cover and know it cold. Not only for yourself, but for the Sailors you will be leading. Next, understand your wardroom and where everyone is in the FITREP 500. It's pretty easy to track the PRD's of everyone and understand what % of folks will be getting an EP/MP/P for each cycle. Know the COC cycle and obviously your own annual cycle. The time to learn this stuff is NOT when you are getting ready to leave your first sea duty command with the hopes of figuring it out prior to your O4/DH look. Cheers & good luck

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Heard Brett's squadron is giving out bags of coal and P FITREPs to JOs this holiday season...

I KEED I KEED

 

[DanMa1156]

Concur with Brett. I was lucky enough to have some great DH's that I even called towards the end of my tour about FITREP advice and keep in touch with to this day.

FITREP timing can screw guys. We had a couple of things go bad with my squadron - when they went from HS to HSC, they nearly doubled the amount of JO's on board in a matter of a couple months - so TONS of people competing. Just when the command thought they had things sorted out, they got told there would be no change of command due to a potential squadron deactivation. Again, I was lucky enough that I had an XO and CO who didn't play games with me - 3 weeks prior to being told we were going to shut down, I was told I was competing for the #1 or #2 EP and I should be shooting for the FRS. As soon as they found out there would be no change of command, the XO called me into his office and said "Dan, you're getting screwed. I'm sorry. Here's the details..." Again, I was very fortunate that I had a chain of command that wrote letters and made phone calls up the wazoo for me in order to get production orders, but I'm told my career is in very hot water, so we shall see.

 

[CommodoreMid]

Though if you're getting a 1 of 1 detaching MP, you're definitely screwed as your skipper is sending a crystal clear message about what he thinks of you.

 

[azguy]

From my corner of the Navy... Yes, the FITREP system can definitely screw over solid guys. In detailer-speak, it's called getting "stuck in traffic," when you're being ranked, for your entire tour, against a guy (or several guys, based on the size of your summary group) who showed up roughly the same time as you and is objectively a total rockstar. You are an EP-level performer, but because you're competing against the future CNO, you are forced into the MP category.

That said, it's still a pretty fair system and your reporting senior has some tricks up his sleeve to game the system a bit to help the solid performers. Those tricks aren't silver bullets. And don't expect a CO to bend over backwards for you if you're not legitimately a solid EP-level player.

 

[MIDNJAC]

I'd take the term "Fleet MP" to mean that their JO/ 1st fleet tour high-water was an MP. FWIW.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Thanks for all the great insights. I'm definitely better armed for the future than before. Along those lines, can verbiage like "MP Due to timing, EP Level Performance" truly make a difference on the O4 board? And for shore tour, what looks better - a competitive MP in a production tour (VT/FRS) or a NOB flying a desk (USNA, ROTC, etc)?

 

[jollygreen07]

Thanks for all the great insights. I'm definitely better armed for the future than before. Along those lines, can verbiage like "MP Due to timing, EP Level Performance" truly make a difference on the O4 board? And for shore tour, what looks better - a competitive MP in a production tour (VT/FRS) or a NOB flying a desk (USNA, ROTC, etc)?

If you get an MP out the door on your fleet tour, you won't make LCDR. I think the folks that did this year were all 2nd looks and did something spectacular whilst on the boat. Those individuals were a very very small minority.

In my own personal case I had two EPs at my shore tour (Vance AFB production job) and it wasn't enough to recover from a #1 MP with some verbiage about timing being a factor, etc. Granted, Vance isn't a desireable production job (small summary group) but it is still a data point to consider.

 

[Brett327]

If you get an MP out the door on your fleet tour, you won't make LCDR.

This has certainly been true during the last few years, but I don't think that will necessarily be the case in the years ahead. In other words, I wouldn't recommend that anyone take their pack off or give up hope because of a 1st tour MP.

 

[jollygreen07]

This has certainly been true during the last few years, but I don't think that will necessarily be the case in the years ahead. In other words, I wouldn't recommend that anyone take their pack off or give up hope because of a 1st tour MP.

Not implying that. Just making an observation based on personal experience and that of a few of my buddies with similar paper/circumstances.

 

[squorch2]

This has certainly been true during the last few years, but I don't think that will necessarily be the case in the years ahead. In other words, I wouldn't recommend that anyone take their pack off or give up hope because of a 1st tour MP.

Return of Son of T-Notch!

 

[Flash]

If you get an MP out the door on your fleet tour, you won't make LCDR. I think the folks that did this year were all 2nd looks and did something spectacular whilst on the boat. Those individuals were a very very small minority.

This has certainly been true during the last few years, but I don't think that will necessarily be the case in the years ahead. In other words, I wouldn't recommend that anyone take their pack off or give up hope because of a 1st tour MP.

Not implying that. Just making an observation based on personal experience and that of a few of my buddies with similar paper/circumstances.

Having been around almost as long as Brett I'll emphatically second what he said, basing what you say on your relatively short experience with the promotion boards is not wise. Having been through several waves of folks being promoted if they fog a mirror to being a a hit or miss proposition I would be cautious advising folks years from promotion on what conditions they would face at their boards.