Failure to plan is a plan to fail, looking for sage wisdom

[mckray]

Hi all, this is my first post. I've done some reading here. I've asked my recruiter and used the search function. Sorry if I'm asking redundant questions.

I'm prior Marine Corps going for SNA. From what I understand, my board is October 3rd. My recruiter seems to think I've got a pretty solid chance of selection. Personally, I'm confident. Of course, I don't know what's going to happen but the risk of failing to plan is much greater than the risk of over planning so here I am and ladies and gents have I got myself in a tight spot.

I'm on an age waiver and turn 29 March 7th. I bought a house this last June and I've got a wife, a 1 year old, and another one on the way. The way I worked out the math and assumed class start dates around the holidays, I've got three possible ship dates I could make with a maximum of 8 weeks moving time and a minimum of 2 weeks. Really fun stuff.

The problems I have:

• I live in a pretty rural area where BAH rates haven't been keeping up with the cost of living at all
• I have a wife who's going to be having a baby on the left coast while I'm in IFS and possibly in API
• I've got a house that I can afford comfortably on my income and my wife's but will be extremely tight once she moves to FL with me and stops working
• The house is full of my stuff but the wife needs to move away to have the baby in another city
• The property managers in my town are terrible

The solutions I'd like to see:

• Move my wife to a more populated city close to her parents and rate the higher BAH at that locality
• Take annual or emergency leave and hope that I time it right for the baby's arrival
• Rent the house out but possibly without the employment of one of the several questionable property managers - no idea how to do this

Solutions I need help with:

• What do I do with all my stuff? I've got a house and a storage unit full of crap that I need to store until we PCS to wherever
• How can I support my wife while I'm on the other side of the country?
• How can I prepare our family to be more robust (legally, financially, and emotionally) and handle the turbulence well?

I'm really looking forward to moving in to this part of my life. Flying has been my dream job since I had a dream job and I finally went for it. Thanks for the support, Air Warriors

 

[Uncle Fester]

1. Declutter (you said you've a storage unit) and sell the house. Unless it's an area where you could possibly be stationed at some point, and since you don't sound thrilled with property managers, why keep it? Prepare to travel as light as you can for the next few years.

2. Opinions will vary widely in this, but try to ship after the baby's born, send the camp followers home to her Mom for OCS, and then bring them with you to Pensacola once you commission. You will likely have a several months' pool before starting class. Flight school is tough with a family at home - it's really wired for the single 22-year-old who can sleep on a futon - but the stress and distraction of being away from a new baby is worse, in my opinion.

I'll be honest with you: you're a "perfect storm" high-risk student. Older, out of school for a while, prior, with family. The wife can make or break things for you. If she's expecting you to hang up the Navy hat at dinner time and be just husband-dad until you roll out next morning, things will be tough for both of you. The program workload is analogous to a tough, full-time graduate school. She needs to understand that your time and schedule are not up to you. You do not want to be the stud who's always sniv'ing out of weekends and night flights because Mrs mckray wants you home. Nor do you want to flunk exams because group study happens in the evenings so you couldn't go.

There's a good support network for spouses of students. I guarantee she won't be the only one with babies in tow. She needs to tap into as many other sources of support - friends, family, church, whatever - as possible for the next few years, because this will all be tough on her too and you can't be her only support.

 

[robav8r]

I'll be honest with you: you're a "perfect storm" high-risk student. Older, out of school for a while, prior, with family. The wife can make or break things for you. If she's expecting you to hang up the Navy hat at dinner time and be just husband-dad until you roll out next morning, things will be tough for both of you. The program workload is analogous to a tough, full-time graduate school. She needs to understand that your time and schedule are not up to you. You do not want to be the stud who's always sniv'ing out of weekends and night flights because Mrs mckray wants you home. Nor do you want to flunk exams because group study happens in the evenings so you couldn't go.

There is a TON of sage advice in the comments above. So . . . . . face it head on and don't let it become a problem that you've already been notified about. You should be talking frequently with your wife and both families about what-if scenarios. Make her and the family feel as if they are part of this journey, and that you NEED there support. In the end, if you make it, it WILL be worth it. But in the short term, you need to be prepared to make many sacrifices. And yes, that means the possibility of missing your child's birth and not having your family in an ideal living situation until you are winged.

 

[Randy Daytona]

Fester nailed it (I said that?). Support for the wife is critical.

The option I can offer on property rentals is to not use a property manager - I have found them to be basically worthless. (I have a couple of long distance rentals.). The most important thing is to find a good (not necessarily cheap) handyman who can fix anything.

Finally get a tight grip on your finances. Wife, baby, another on the way and possibly a rental property. As Ben Franklin said, a penny saved is a penny earned. Whether it is a credit card that offers 6% cash back (AMEX Blue Cash preferred on groceries), 10% military discounts at Lowe's, or fuel points from the grocery store (we saved $950 last year with those), the last thing you want is financial stress on top of everything else. A spreadsheet to track expenses, no matter how small, is a good way to start.

 

[Griz882]

Uncle Fester hit all the right keys. So does robav8r. I was in the exact same boat in 1986 when I hit AOCS, and I nearly bombed it twice in training because of family issues. You are smart to plan ahead, but you really need to be smart in your planning. For example, there is one deep flaw in your plan...BAH is attached to your duty location, not your home location. If BAH in P'cola is lower than BAH in Camp Swampy, you are screwed. It does not matter where your wife lives, only you. On the brighter side, you will probably be paid as an O-1E and trust me, the extra few dollars count...a lot (on BAH alone it is an extra $250 a month).

 

[Rugby_Guy]

So I went through almost the exact same situation. I was a prior F18 Airframer, went MECEP and got married in college. Then had my first son right before TBS (went Marines) so I had a 10 month old when I checked into API and I had my daughter the week I finished ground school in Primary.

Balancing studying for Aero 2 in API and trying to teach my son to walk was a tough balance. Trying to help my wife get both kids down for a nap 20 minutes before I had to leave for a sim event was harder. And in Primary we went in det, so face timing the family while getting ready to brief a flight in a different time zone was even harder. But, I got jet grades and I'm in Kingsville now, so I feel I've done good so far.

My advice is to establish a good line of communication and keep her in the loop. Your wife doesn't need to stress over every rumor (Stud Control says everyone is probably going Corpus for example) but she should know all the possibilities and where the rabbit holes are. Like when I got jets, there are certain duty stations she can just cross off the list, or even a rough idea what the syllabus flow looks like.

And I personally took every Saturday and didn't touch a book. That was the "family day" where we would go to the beach or watch college football or whatever. Gave me a chance to decompress a bit, gave her a break from dealing with the kids 100% during the week and made the night flights or even Saturday out and ins tolerable, because she knew when I had the time I was making an effort to focus on family stuff. Then Sunday I'd get back and prep for Monday's event or just study EPs or whatever the flavor of the week was.

If you have any other specific questions, you can shoot me a PM.

 

[villanelle]

I would without a doubt sell the house. I've been an absentee landlord with a barely mediocre PM, and a good PM, and it still sucks and is stressful. It's also pretty expensive. Once you factor in all the costs (and people *always* underestimate maintenance), are you really going to be making money? And enough money to make it worth the headache and stress? Why not just sell? Especially since you admit the money will be very tight once your wife moves to be with you. Just get rid of it.

Will your wife and kid be living with her parents, or just near them? It sounds like it would be just near them, in which case she's going to need at least some of your stuff with her. For the rest of it, I guess you store it if you are hellbent on that plan. You'll want to talk to your recruiter (or someone here, perhaps) about the location from where the Navy will move your stuff once you PCS, so that you don't get in to a situation where you've moved it to Chicago but the Navy will only move it from CA to Washington (for example). If your stuff is split between two locations (wife's temp home and your current home), that's going to have the potential to be complicated.

When is your wife due, compared to when you think you'll finish OCS? Since you mention taking leave for the birth, it sounds like you expect to be in flight school (API, whatever), and out of OCS. Is there a reason you wouldn't move her to be with you, instead of you trying to guess on a birth date and then pray to the leave Gods? Yes, you will be busy. Yes, you will often work all day and then study all night. But that's still better than being across the country from wife and kid, and it allows you to care for the baby for 20 minutes while your wife gets a shower, and maybe change a diaper or two. And perhaps more importantly, it allows the 4 of you to be together as a family, even if that is a rushed dinner during which you are muttering EPs under your breath. The Navy will take you away from your wife and kids far too much for you to add additional separation time to that, especially when, as far as I can tell, there doesn't seem to be a great reason for it. If the rationale is that she'll be near her parents and can get help, as if that's truly worthy you dividing your family. How much support will she actually get, especially if she's not living in the house with them. Could nearly the same level of assistance be provided if you maybe fly her parents or her mom out to Florida for a month or two after the birth, if they/she is able to do that? And if they aren't able to do that because they work or have other commitments, then it seems like they aren't going to have all that much time to help out anyway. Yes, you will be busy, but not so busy that you can't sneak in that break for her to shower or the heating of some bottles or chilling with your other kid for 20 minutes so mom can read a magazine in peace.

As for how to support your wife, I'm not sure exactly what you are asking, but you can certainly ask her that question. Have her tell you what she hopes things will look like as far as communication, visits (if you insist on the separation), etc., and discuss whether that's realistic. (Were you married when you were enlisted or is she entirely new to this?) For deployments, I generally tell people to have a conversation about what they expect as far as minimum communication. This likely won't be much different than a deployment, once you are out of OCS, if you do live apart. Would she prefer to hear from you every day even if all you have time for his a quick 3 word text? Or will that annoy her, especially if she's sent you emails with specific questions which you aren't answering with that, "Love you. Miss you. So tired", message? Do you want to set aside a specific time each week to talk (with the understanding on both sides that things can and will come up for both of you)? Or will that feel like an added stress for one or both of you? These are the kinds of specific things you should discuss, always--always!--noting that things change or that what you thought you wanted may turn out not to work at all. You are just setting up expectations and the groundwork for your opening approach, with adjustments expected. Maybe you can agree that Friday nights, unless you are flying or there's some other Big! Thing!, you'll commit to no studying, and either family time, or dad time while she gets to not be peed and vomited on for a few hours. Talk about it all, and then talk some more. In addition to finding out what is most important to her and to you, talk about what you think you know about how this all will work--mainly that you are going to have an unpredictable schedule, that even when you aren't technically working you need to be going to study groups and studying uninterrupted at home, etc., that you aren't going to be able to take a lot of the night shifts, etc. It's much better that she knows that ahead of time. And this is true whether she moves with you or not. TALK!

So really, 1) sell the house and move your wife with you as soon as the Navy allows it. 2) Discuss preferences, expectations, fears, perceived needs, and priorities for both of you, and readdress those things frequently.

 

[Uncle Fester]

...Your wife doesn't need to stress over every rumor (Stud Control says everyone is probably going Corpus for example) but she should know all the possibilities and where the rabbit holes are. Like when I got jets, there are certain duty stations she can just cross off the list, or even a rough idea what the syllabus flow looks like.

And I personally took every Saturday and didn't touch a book. That was the "family day" where we would go to the beach or watch college football or whatever. Gave me a chance to decompress a bit, gave her a break from dealing with the kids 100% during the week and made the night flights or even Saturday out and ins tolerable, because she knew when I had the time I was making an effort to focus on family stuff. Then Sunday I'd get back and prep for Monday's event or just study EPs or whatever the flavor of the week was...

Good points.

OP: you didn't say if the wife was with you when you were in the Corps. If she was, then being a TRACOM Widow will be less of a culture shock, and the Navy is structurally/administratively similar enough to the Marines that it's just going to be learning new words to the same music. If she's new to all this military life stuff, she will really need to take advantage of all the Fleet & Family Services counseling and services. Culture-shock wise, it's more like living in a new country than just moving for a job. "What's TRICARE?" "When do you get paid?" "Where's our free house?" "Why didn't you request to be stationed in Hawaii after Primary?"

Re: family day. Great if you can pull it off. Personally I flew a lot of Sat morning sim rides, weekend XCs, etc., whilst in VT-land. "What do you mean you have an 0800 sim on Saturday? Didn't you tell them that's family day? Junior was so excited you were going to the zoo, doesn't that matter to you?" CNATRA's mission is to get you out the door as expeditiously as possible, as a winged, trained, consistently safe RP ready for the RAG, and produce a certain number of nuggets per quarter. Everything else, including your work-life balance, is secondary at best.

 

[villanelle]

Uncle Fester brings up a good point. If she's new to this, the Navy offers a course called "Compass". It's essentially Military 101 for spouses. I believe they have it at every base, offered several times a year (or more). It focuses on things like acronyms, rank structure, Tricare, etc. It's no substitute for talking about expectations, but it may help her feel a bit less lost if all this is new to her.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Uncle Fester brings up a good point. If she's new to this, the Navy offers a course called "Compass". It's essentially Military 101 for spouses. I believe they have it at every base, offered several times a year (or more). It focuses on things like acronyms, rank structure, Tricare, etc. It's no substitute for talking about expectations, but it may help her feel a bit less lost if all this is new to her.

Hopefully also they cover formally or informally some points of structure and etiquette. Like, "The Skipper is the boss of the squadron, the XO is his deputy, and you will be putting your spouse in a world of pain if you call either of them to complain about something."

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Hi all, this is my first post. I've done some reading here. I've asked my recruiter and used the search function. Sorry if I'm asking redundant questions.

I'm prior Marine Corps going for SNA. From what I understand, my board is October 3rd. My recruiter seems to think I've got a pretty solid chance of selection. Personally, I'm confident. Of course, I don't know what's going to happen but the risk of failing to plan is much greater than the risk of over planning so here I am and ladies and gents have I got myself in a tight spot.

I'm on an age waiver and turn 29 March 7th. I bought a house this last June and I've got a wife, a 1 year old, and another one on the way. The way I worked out the math and assumed class start dates around the holidays, I've got three possible ship dates I could make with a maximum of 8 weeks moving time and a minimum of 2 weeks. Really fun stuff.

The problems I have:

• I live in a pretty rural area where BAH rates haven't been keeping up with the cost of living at all
• I have a wife who's going to be having a baby on the left coast while I'm in IFS and possibly in API
• I've got a house that I can afford comfortably on my income and my wife's but will be extremely tight once she moves to FL with me and stops working
• The house is full of my stuff but the wife needs to move away to have the baby in another city
• The property managers in my town are terrible

The solutions I'd like to see:

• Move my wife to a more populated city close to her parents and rate the higher BAH at that locality
• Take annual or emergency leave and hope that I time it right for the baby's arrival
• Rent the house out but possibly without the employment of one of the several questionable property managers - no idea how to do this

Solutions I need help with:

• What do I do with all my stuff? I've got a house and a storage unit full of crap that I need to store until we PCS to wherever
• How can I support my wife while I'm on the other side of the country?
• How can I prepare our family to be more robust (legally, financially, and emotionally) and handle the turbulence well?

I'm really looking forward to moving in to this part of my life. Flying has been my dream job since I had a dream job and I finally went for it. Thanks for the support, Air Warriors

I hate to burst your bubble but if your birthday is March 7th that means you need to be in OCS by Dec 7th, but then you need to go back a few weeks to account for Christmas time off, so with the board date changing to mid Nov there is no way to get you to OCS in time, but you would still be eligible for NFO