FAA Medical Certification, and how military hours and ratings translate to FAA ratings.

[propanelord]

Hey everybody.

My dream is to be an officer and pilot in our great military. I am an enlisted reservist, non-aviation role, no aviation experience.

I have had an absolutely wild rollercoaster the past 18 months trying to make that happen. I am 25 years old.

I am realizing that the Marine Corps recruiters may not be the path of least resistance. Well, I should say, I am realizing they may be the path of greatest resistance. With all the drama, a CWO5 recommended I submit an IG complaint against MEPS (or at least, a specific MEPS or MEPS employee). I'm not sure if I can do that complaint in good conscience, not to mention acquiring adequate evidence to have it go anywhere, and have people get interviewed about it). I never made it to NAMI; I got hung up earlier in the pathway, at MEPS. I'm stating in the past tense because the recruiters are burnt out, and they were already super generous with their time. I suspect nobody is doing anything heinously wrong. Just good people trying to do their jobs.

I have been told that if I ever want to get an Air National Guard or Air Force Reserve pilot contract, and/or if I want to be even slightly more competitive for Navy/Marine-Corps SNA, I need/could-benefit-from earning a PPL. I don't know if I NEED a PPL at minimum, or if some sport pilot hours would do the same.

Anyway, to harken back to what I said earlier, I think it would be a real mistake if I didn't include that I am having trouble with accession/applying to the military for three primary reasons:

• A lack of medical waivers for things that should've gotten a medical waiver from my branch of service when I initially enlisted, way back when.
• Alleged civilian medical malpractice
• Back before digitization, some civilian provider mistakenly inserted someone else's medical record into my medical record, allegedly, and there is stuff that shouldn't be there.

I also had a moral waiver for childhood misconduct when I enlisted many years ago. Thank God that was handled correctly when I initially enlisted, otherwise it would give me the appearance of being a fraudster.

I apologize for the unpolished nature of this post; please bear with me.

To be abundantly clear, I have zero military aviation and zero civilian aviation experience. I have no FAA rating, not even student pilot. I have never applied for an FAA medical certificate, and have never even spoken to an AME until just recently. I haven't done any MedXpress forms so no clock has begun ticking.

If I want to get an FAA Class 1 or Class 2 medical right now, I need to do the HIMS program, because when I was a child, I had civil violations, most of which were dismissed, for possession of alcohol by a minor, and possession of marijuana by a minor. Granted, these were not crimes. This was nine and ten years ago, but the FAA does not care. The HIMS program would allegedly entail having to do months of AA and rehab to get the FAA to grant me a class 1 or 2. If that sounds crazy, please, I am not concealing any serious information from you. That is how strict the FAA is.
Allegedly, an AME could get me a class 3 medical certificate quite a bit easier. How much easier? I am trying to confirm. A civilian can get a PPL with only a class 3. That would still leave me the door open to upgrade to class 1 or 2 FAA medical certificate later. And of course, all of this would be thousands of dollars of my money, which I am potentially willing to spend

Okay, getting closer here:

Let's say hypothetically, I did not attempt this FAA medical process, and I, at least temporarily, went no further with FAA Medical Certification, and then subsequently I somehow can convince DAM (Army), and/or ACS (USAF), and/or NAMI (USN/USMC/USCG) to medically clear me to train to fly as a uniformed military aviator:

Following that, if I then subsequently, as a hypothetical successful military pilot, attempted to convert my military aviation experience to FAA ratings, would the FAA still make me jump through all those HIMS hoops before I could ever hope to lawfully touch a civilian aircraft during leave and liberty and/or fly as a civilian following a military aviation career? Or do they just assume that if the DOD/DOW has determined a military pilot is currently medically cleared to fly in the military, that said military pilot must meet FAA standards too? (I know it likely may oftentimes pay dividends for military pilots to start to convert their ratings before they leave active service). If you do not know, and/or it is arbitrary and different every time, I understand. If I took a guess, I would guess your job description does not include an expectation to have expertise in the present-day policies regarding how the FAA grants medical certificates and ratings to military pilots. If it is silly for me to ask, I apologize, please feel free to ignore. And I am not trying to be rude at all. I am grateful for your help.

Regardless of your answer(s), if any, I think I do want to move forward with at minimum, third class, I just need to know more. I talked about bypassing any medical certification by flying in the military. Flying in the military will never be a certainty. I want to get flying as a civilian in some way, shape, or form now, and hope and pray for the military option to open up for me soon or later.

If an FAA Third Class were much easier to obtain, I would consider just a class 3 for now, leaving the door open to upgrade to a higher class at a later date. If I can get a civilian FAA PPL on my own time and dime, it may be more realistic for me to somehow subsequently get an Air Force Reserve and/or Air National Guard pilot contract, or Navy/Marine Corps pilot contract. Not only would military training be serendipitous in regard to being a cheaper path to flying-in-general, but I can always attempt to become a Class 3 PPL, then a military pilot second, then finally try to get a civilian FAA Class 1 certificate finally last. And if I suceed with class 3 FAA, but then fail with the military, and can never become a military pilot, but still luckily am FAA third class, I can always embark on the ~12-month HIMS program to upgrade later, assuming the Feds don't tighten the rules even further.

For the record, just in case someone is getting the impression, No, I am not looking at the military as some cash-cow path to the airlines. I am really passionate about service to the country AND aviation in general. I want to be a military pilot even more than I want to be a pilot of any kind. I also really want to be an active duty officer in the naval services. But at some point, you have to consider throwing a bunch of effort at a lot of different stuff and seeing what sticks. If a Navy recruiter could make me an SNA quick but a Marine Corps recruiter would take 3 years for SNA, well... I'm 25 years old... I'm limited on time. I might have to get serious about, doing some BAMCIS, and tactfully and politely reaching out to a variety of different people in a way that makes it clear I am exploring my options.


I will try to edit this post for clarity, but I'm running out of time. I do apologize for the length. I am expecting I may have a lot of misconceptions and I am hoping some of you can shoot down some big issues with my thinking and planning. Thank you very much!

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Similar to your previous essays and posts, strongly encourage researching and less writing the next novel of questions, information, and stories. Odds are your questions have been asked and answered multiple times on here.

 

[propanelord]

Why even comment?

Are you insinuating my problems could be solved with a small around of research? Are you insinuating I am lazy? I have put more effort into accession than 95% of applicants. I put more effort into accession, than some currently serving O grades put into their actual job.

Am I an asshole, and/or ignorant, and/or overconfident? Maybe on the first two.

I am pouring lots of hours into this because I really want to serve my country in a greater capacity.

If I didn't give any background information, and just wrpte a short post with bizarre questions, people would complain about that too. although maybe my reasoning is very flawed, perhaps responding to said complaints and answering some bewildered questions is better than this neverending post. The story is far too weird for anyone to understand the logic of the questions, if the questions were standalone without a story. I would also get comments like "you're putting the cart in front of the horse, buddy." "You can worry about it once you make it." "Why do you need a PPL if you want to be a naval aviator?"

Is what I wrote really good?
No. But I did put a lot of time into it.

Did I fail? If you say so, then don't comment. My apologies. I will accept that I failed and try again some way

 

[Fins Out]

If you haven't already, I'd recommend you take a look at the FAA AME guide for your specific concerns.

https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/abuse_dep

If you're going to fill out a Medxpress form for any FAA class medical, this will spell out what to expect.

I believe a military flight physical will be recognized as an FAA class 3 medical, but CFR part 61 will have more specifics.

There are a few AME consult services out there. You might find it worthwhile to pay for some of their time as your situation seems a bit complex.

 

[propanelord]

If you haven't already, I'd recommend you take a look at the FAA AME guide for your specific concerns.

https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/abuse_dep

If you're going to fill out a Medxpress form for any FAA class medical, this will spell out what to expect.

I believe a military flight physical will be recognized as an FAA class 3 medical, but CFR part 61 will have more specifics.

There are a few AME consult services out there. You might find it worthwhile to pay for some of their time as your situation seems a bit complex.

Thank you so much. Everything I have read says that you should do a consult before ever filling out a MedXpress form, because once you fill out the form a clock starts ticking, and if you dont get all the paperwork and other testing done in a certain finite period of time, the FAA automatically slaps you with a denial before the final submission. Which is allegedly very difficult to appeal. Allegedly is keyword. Thank you so much!

If no DOD aviator automatically gets a class 1 or 2, then it sounds like I should just start the pain in the ass of trying to get a class 1 from the get go, or at least, as soon as I get my PPL, try to start the class 3 to 1 upgrade process, because, according to what you just said, if I was a currently serving clean and active flight status active duty or reservist aviator, id have to jump through the same exact hoops to upgrade the gimme boilerplate class 3 to a class 1.

Again. Thanks so much, im really grateful for the help. I will be googling what usually happens if you already have a class 3 or already have a class 2 and try to upgrade to a higher class of certificate and get a denial. I assume trying to slowly inch your way up is better and safer and more cautious than going straight from nothing to 1, and risking getting a denial, and that if you have a good history of safely flying at class 3 on a PPL and possibly CFI, and get denied in the upgrade to higher class, you have a much higher chance of keeping your class 3 at least, than you do trying to appeal a class 1 failure and then apply for a class 3 on the re-try, but who knows, ill be googling that. I cant say thanks enough, it's nice to get information from real people who arent AMEs and aren't trying to be rule following robots who can get in legal trouble or lose their medical license and aren't standing to financially profit off my decisions

Actually, according to what I just now read, if you have a three and try to upgrade to a 1 or 2 and get a denial, they throw out the three, and you cannot even be a Sport Pilot rated pilot at that point. You're screwed. Maybe there's an exception for actively serving current and clean flight status military aviators and they get to
Keep their class 3 when that happens, who knows, whatever, not important. Maybe I should just try for a class 1 from the getgo. Who knows. Bless ya'll

 

[Gatordev]

Maybe there's an exception for actively serving current and clean flight status military aviators and they get to
Keep their class 3 when that happens, who knows, whatever, not important.

No. The FAA does not care about your military medical. Period. The only exception is Part 61, as FinsOut mentioned, but that only applies while you maintain a military aviation physical, which goes away once you're out of the military. And that's only an equivalency, not something that the FAA even sees.

 

[propanelord]

No. The FAA does not care about your military medical. Period. The only exception is Part 61, as FinsOut mentioned, but that only applies while you maintain a military aviation physical, which goes away once you're out of the military. And that's only an equivalency, not something that the FAA even sees.

Only while you're in military flight status, and good on it, yea? So if colonel joe gets promoted to brigadier and has to go the Pentagon for 3 years, well, there's a lot of nuance there we dont have to talk about, and someone of my caliber doesnt need to know. My point is, not every aviator is always on flight status for every tour, and they have to pickup some non-aviation roles, like the dissociated tour or whatever it's called, yes?

And more importantly, all the FAA grants military cleared pilots is a third class. So I still have to jump through the same hoops to get a second or first class... regardless of whether I am a military pilot or not...

I don't think I have posed this anecdote to you all yet: Can you imagine LieutenantJG or 1st lieutenant or O-3 so and so pilot James going "hey squadron commander, i know I'm only 5 years into an 11 year conteact, but I'm trying to convert my military ratings and hours into FAA ratings, and first, or at least to use my FAA ratings, I need to get a civilian FAA first class medical certificate. So sorry, squadron commander, but I need to run out and miss a little work because even though I'm not an alcoholic and only drink a couple drinks on Federal holidays and my wife's birthday, trust me sir, I promise, I need to run out to Alcoholics Anonymous a couple times a week for six months, and also I need to do serious drug testing at the FAA aviation clinic a couple times per month for 12 months, oops, those days fall on work days, you'll have to get someone to cover my shift, sorry. Oh, and finally, I need crazy FAA AME mental and psycho testing to make sure I'm not crazy, but I promise sir, I'm not. (I'm not sure which it is; If they will bestow a CPL and ATP with a class 3 that you just can't use until you get a class 2/1, or if they only give you a PPL and IR and CFI and CFII until you can upgrade that boilerplate class 3 into a 2 or class 1. Not a big deal to know, it really doesnt matter, because either way you need the class 2 or class 1 to ever do any serious civilian flying.)

I thought Part 61 was a type of flight school education program, like 141 and others. But I'm gonna get read up on it

Thank you very much sir.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Why even comment?

Are you insinuating my problems could be solved with a small around of research? Are you insinuating I am lazy? I have put more effort into accession than 95% of applicants. I put more effort into accession, than some currently serving O grades put into their actual job.

Am I an asshole, and/or ignorant, and/or overconfident? Maybe on the first two.

I am pouring lots of hours into this because I really want to serve my country in a greater capacity.

If I didn't give any background information, and just wrpte a short post with bizarre questions, people would complain about that too. although maybe my reasoning is very flawed, perhaps responding to said complaints and answering some bewildered questions is better than this neverending post. The story is far too weird for anyone to understand the logic of the questions, if the questions were standalone without a story. I would also get comments like "you're putting the cart in front of the horse, buddy." "You can worry about it once you make it." "Why do you need a PPL if you want to be a naval aviator?"

Is what I wrote really good?
No. But I did put a lot of time into it.

Did I fail? If you say so, then don't comment. My apologies. I will accept that I failed and try again some way

No one here (including me) is calling you dumb or lazy. I personally can see you are putting in the work, but you are spending that energy on the wrong things. In the military, as I'm sure you've seen, effort is not measured by how many hours you spend explaining your situation. It is measured by results and brevity. If you spent half the time you use for writing these essays on reading the actual recruiting manuals and FAA guidelines, you would realize that most of your what ifs have already been answered.

First, you are putting the cart before the horse. You are worried about converting military ratings to civilian ones before you have even cleared for a commission. You are 25. Every day you spend writing a novel on a forum is a day you aren't fixing your medical packet. Second, the military and the FAA are two different animals. One does not automatically clear the other. If you are hung up at MEPS now, an IG complaint (without exhausting all options) isn't a magic wand. It is a bridge burner.

Finally, telling you to research isn't an insult. It is a test of the self sufficiency required of an officer. If you cannot navigate an instruction or a forum for basic answers, you are going to struggle when it really matters. Stop trying to prove how hard you are working by typing. Take your records to a recruiter, see if they will even touch the waivers, and focus on the immediate hurdle. The Navy cares if you meet the standard, not how unique your backstory is.

 

[propanelord]

No one here (including me) is calling you dumb or lazy. I personally can see you are putting in the work, but you are spending that energy on the wrong things. In the military, as I'm sure you've seen, effort is not measured by how many hours you spend explaining your situation. It is measured by results and brevity. If you spent half the time you use for writing these essays on reading the actual recruiting manuals and FAA guidelines, you would realize that most of your what ifs have already been answered.

First, you are putting the cart before the horse. You are worried about converting military ratings to civilian ones before you have even cleared for a commission. You are 25. Every day you spend writing a novel on a forum is a day you aren't fixing your medical packet. Second, the military and the FAA are two different animals. One does not automatically clear the other. If you are hung up at MEPS now, an IG complaint (without exhausting all options) isn't a magic wand. It is a bridge burner.

Finally, telling you to research isn't an insult. It is a test of the self sufficiency required of an officer. If you cannot navigate an instruction or a forum for basic answers, you are going to struggle when it really matters. Stop trying to prove how hard you are working by typing. Take your records to a recruiter, see if they will even touch the waivers, and focus on the immediate hurdle. The Navy cares if you meet the standard, not how unique your backstory is.

You misunderstand the specific nature of my problems. Assuming you even are misunderstanding, you misunderstanding is likely my fault, not your fault. The recruiters tasked me with doing some stuff. I have packets pending with BUMED and am attempting to get stuff amended. Keep in mind, these are not waiver packets, these are packets in my enlisted reservist career, trying to get stuff amended, so MEPS will even talk to me. I run into all kinds of problems: HMC so and so sends a packet to the wrong place, BUMED does x or y wrong, they blame this person, personellist makes this mistake, HMC didn't do the packet correctly, it took him three months to even attempt to do it, HMC so and so or Lieutenant Command M.D. so and so ghosted me for 90 days... The problems go on and on.

If I got to the 'can I get a waiver' stage, that would be great. Although, recruiters don't actually know very much about what can be waived and what cannot. But it is actually you who is putting the cart before the horse right now: I'm confused how you could even suggest that I go to a recruiter when you know I'm already having trouble with MEPS? Wouldn't I implicitly, by definition, already have been with a recruiter if I was already having trouble at MEPS? You're talking about something I did when Biden was President - I've been on the recruiter train for a long time. Maybe you think I did it through a career planner? I guess that's how it works on the active-duty side of the house - I wouldn't know. I went via a normal recruiter. Perhaps I am mistaken and misunderstand completely, and you are suggesting I try new recruiters and/or new branch of service, and I am a bozo for missing that. Well, my chief concern there is any recruiter of any kind just does not want the bureacuratic hassle, regardless of if they like me and my motivation or not. Plus, won't any recruiter see that I already have sent 2807s to MEPS, and they will know that I am a walking quagmire?

Thank you for your candor, and the generous response. That was very helpful, and no, I'm not being sarcastic, genuinely, thank you. Yes, there are many things I could be doing better, and room for lots of self-improvement. I am, a flawed person.

See, there you go with the 'putting the cart before the horse, why are you asking about civilian ratings!?.', something I already predicted.

First of all, if I did give up on the SNA (which I'm not ready to do - I haven't even really tried the Navy, and I'm not done giving up on the Corps); And/or, if I aged out because all this drama took too long and I missed the age window, I could try the USAF, possibly specifically the Air Force Reserve and/or Air National Guard. They generally demand that new military aviator applicants already have a rating before they will select you - at least, that is what various AGR, TR, and DSG airman have alleged to me. Also, I know Marine Corps aviators who got a PPL first on their own time and dime, and allegedly, it is a small benefit for selection in the Marine Corps. It shows initiative, and it shows that you can at least succeed in some semblance of aviation training, allegedly.

Either way, for all I know, I may never be able to fly ever in the military, or ever in general. So there's a certain point where, if you really want something, you need to try everything and sees what sticks - at least, that's my logic. I am certainly not inherently worthy of a response, but if anyone wants to give it to me, I know you might just tear me down; I've been wrong before. If I'm guilty of something, and you take the time to tell me I'm wrong, I might bite back, but I can only complain if you tell me I'm jacked up. I'm not entitled to coddling, and I'm not looking for a pity party. In other words, I'm ready to get trashed on the internet if that's what people decide to do.

Also, you didn't address my little anecdote in my most recent message. Uh, it seems like a pretty significant issue hypothetically. Whether an enlisted man now, or an officer later, having to do rehab and everything else to get an FAA medical certificate seems like a pretty big issue. Not to mention, if I do rehab with FAA now, I ASSUME that may need to go on any future 2807s. Seems like I should be especially concerned about FAA, but if you tell me I'm jacked up, then maybe I really need to totally never worry about the FAA again.

Oh, and you brought up the records issue - you said 'show the recruiter your records.' The other issue is what records are real, and what are the HRAs seeing in Infonet and/or other databases. I don't have the same access everyone else does. I cannot even get fully into my Genesis. I can only go to civilian providers and hope they give me the real, authentic stuff in its totality. That's a secondary or tertiary problem. Hopefully, that problem is finally mostly now resolved. What do I do when the liason at MEPS is calling me up asking me if I had leukimia last month? Hint: they are either making stuff up, OR, the more likely two options is, they are accidnetally reading the wrong thing, and/or all the databases are jacked up

I know officers who can't change their oil, or navigate purchasing a home. So, I'm not saying 'look at me, I'm better, or more sophisticated than other people.' My point is this: These problems are not "basic", they are complex and advanced, and seldom have few officers had to navigate them. Hell, few Americans have dealt with them. That, I am certain of. How many of these problems are my own doing because I made poor choices when I was a child? Probably ~1/3rd of these problems are my fault. So can I complain there? Only a little, since I made my bed. The other 2/3rd are fair game to moan and groan about on the internet, although I'm not entitled to being on Air Warriors. It's not my forum. I'm blessed to be here.

I have to send more emails and make more phone calls, as well as go to work today, but I will attempt to heed your advice and look for 'recruiting manuals' and see if that helps me. I did not expect to find answers in official manuals. I was told by some HRAs that "the problem you are running into is that the military is arbitrary and nonsensical, and no one actually has rules for what to do in your situation; They just make them up as they go". But if you say otherwise, I will take your word as near gospel and try to find the answers!!!

God bless ya'll

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Words!!!

Starting off, I would strongly encourage learning to organize your thoughts and not put everything into writing. People don't have time to read your posts and replies and sort what is relevant and what isn't. I am very confident most of your reply is not relevant or adds any context to what you're actually trying to say. Once again, not saying you're not smart, simply... learn to get straight to the point.

I am not any "better" than you, simply trying to help you get better responses and use of this website/forum.

 

[propanelord]

Starting off, I would strongly encourage learning to organize your thoughts and not put everything into writing. People don't have time to read your posts and replies and sort what is relevant and what isn't. I am very confident most of your reply is not relevant or adds any context to what you're actually trying to say. Once again, not saying you're not smart, simply... learn to get straight to the point.

I am not any "better" than you, simply trying to help you get better responses and use of this website/forum.

Perhaps that could be argued to be my biggest failing as a person. I often use ChatGPT to help - it's not a miracle worker, but it's better. Even so, that's not a big help, and it's not a good habitual thing to use repeatedly all the time. I didn't use ChatGPT on this thread, I don't think. I may have used it on the last thread.

Keep in mind, my situation is complex enough, and overwhelming, that I may not always know, or have the capability to evaluate, exactly which details are relevant and which aren't; At least some of the story is important - as we demonstrated, people will think I'm silly for bringing the FAA into the conversation when it is, in reality, quite relevant. However, I'm certain I could do better.

AirWarriors is not my day care, but if nothing else, the more I talk and write about it, the more familiar I am getting with it, and it may ultimately help me slowly boil it down for future investigators or attorneys or medical personnel

Thank you for all the responses

 

[Fins Out]

On the FAA medical side of the house, you mention feeling overwhelmed but it might help to distill this whole discussion to three questions(which will apply to FAA class 1, 2, and 3 medicals):

1) Do whatever issue(s) I have even allow me the possibility to hold an FAA medical? There are a few conditions the FAA will nope you right outta there, but a vast majority have a path to walking out of your AME's office with your slip of paper. With that in mind, moving on:

2) With my issue(s), what steps do I need to accomplish in order to be approved for an FAA medical? And finally:

3) With my issue(s), what steps do I need to accomplish in order to keep my medical in the future.

The FAA will look differently if substance abuse issues were in the past, say folly of youth, as opposed to if you just had your 2nd DUI blowing over .15 BAC. Your situation might involve AA meetings or rehab. It also might not.

I'm only an unlicensed surgeon. You need to seek out a good AME, potentially one trained in HIMS, and have a confidential consultation honestly spelling everything out. They will help you answer the three questions above. Armed with that solid knowledge will allow you to plan a path forward.

 

[U-Aviation]

From the airline side of things, I have never heard of someone needing to clear HIMS before getting the FAA medical. I understand that to be a program for pilots already holding CPL’s and ATP’s needing to recover from substance abuse. Not for someone that has yet to be hired. No experience with it myself so I may be wrong. I should add that depending on the circumstance of your past troubles you may not be able to pass the background check. You would need to speak to someone in hiring I suppose.

With appreciation of the effort you put into your questions, I would also encourage you to better condense your questions & comments. With a foot in both the aviation and literature worlds, I would counsel that brevity is always appreciated.

 

[propanelord]

On the FAA medical side of the house, you mention feeling overwhelmed but it might help to distill this whole discussion to three questions(which will apply to FAA class 1, 2, and 3 medicals):

1) Do whatever issue(s) I have even allow me the possibility to hold an FAA medical? There are a few conditions the FAA will nope you right outta there, but a vast majority have a path to walking out of your AME's office with your slip of paper. With that in mind, moving on:

2) With my issue(s), what steps do I need to accomplish in order to be approved for an FAA medical? And finally:

3) With my issue(s), what steps do I need to accomplish in order to keep my medical in the future.

The FAA will look differently if substance abuse issues were in the past, say folly of youth, as opposed to if you just had your 2nd DUI blowing over .15 BAC. Your situation might involve AA meetings or rehab. It also might not.

I'm only an unlicensed surgeon. You need to seek out a good AME, potentially one trained in HIMS, and have a confidential consultation honestly spelling everything out. They will help you answer the three questions above. Armed with that solid knowledge will allow you to plan a path forward.

I absolutely do feel overwhelmed; it's hard to write really good emails to these AMEs, attorneys, and stuff. It takes me a lot of hours to craft a good email. Sorry for being a primadonna and a bitch. I am new to talking to AMEs, but I have been speaking to attorneys for a long time. Hopefully this boat actually starts to move sooner than later.

1. That's a good question. I'm trying to get the AME to tell me if third class would be easier. However, if I become a military pilot, and/or a successful PPL/CFI/IR/CFII pilot, I will very much so want to get at least a class 2 certificate, maybe I'll want a class 1, and according to the current AME, getting a class 2 requires all the aforementioned Alcoholics Anonymous/12-month urinalysis drama. According to what @Fins Out said, AND assuming the AME was true and correct, if I am an active duty military uniformed aviator and want a Class 1 or 2, assuming there isn't some big military exception somehow nobody knows about, I would be trying to do AA and 12 month urinalysis while balancing duties as a military aviator, assuming I don't just try to knock out Class 1 or Class 2 now before that point. (Of course, the real reality is that I may not be able to get MEPS and/or NAMI and/or ACS to take me anyway. Who knows!

Also, let's say Class 3 is easy to get from an AME right now (we know Class 3 is likely easy to get if you're a military aviator, and it may be easy for me to get an AME to grant me a class 3 right now.) If I get an AME to give me, regular joe dumbass, a class 3 right now, and later on I want to upgrade to 1 or 2, presumably if I get a denial for the certificate upgrade, they very likely, or perhaps certainly revoke my class 3, and then I'm left with nothing, allegedly. Althought IF THAT IS LIKELY, we would assume the AME would tell me ahead of time that 'hey bro, you probably should just hold onto the class 3 and never apply for an upgrade.'

The AME I spoke to is a HIMS AME and a Senior AME, among other things. Yes, I will likely formally consult in-person with a senior AME, who may or may not know. But it was really good I asked ya'll first. Thank you!!!!

For the record, I've never ever had a DUI, nor DWI, OUI, OVI, OWI, nor OMVI. I've never had a California 'Reckless Driving with Alcohol'. I've never had a breathalyzer reading of any kind other than 0.00. And the only breathalyzing I've had is from Marines and MEPS. I've never had a suspected DUI or anything. I've never had any citations or crimes related to transporting alcohol or drugs in a vehicle, either. I've never had any traffic-substance violations or traffic-substance crimes. I've never been charged or cited for anything such as 'transporting alcohol' or 'transporting marijuana.' I've only ever been charged with a couple of crimes; they were all simultaneous, they were all misdemeanors, and I was only convicted of one of them, and I was a younger teenager, and it was not a particularly heinous misdemeanor. It seems to be the least of anyone's concerns. And all legal violations and crimes were all disclosed and waived by Marine Corps Recruiting District when I enlisted all those years ago. I was more transparent with actual AMEs, Law, recruiters, MEPS, obviously than I am being with ya'll. I specified the crimes, but I don't want to identify myself any more than I already am, at least that would be preffered. I think the criminal aspect is a close-to-non-issue, and the legal issues in general are likely almost a non-issue, other than the fact that I have teenage civil violations for substances, and the FAA cares about that a lot. The MEPS station cares about the medical records issue, and I don't think they have large substance concerns; they are worried about diagnoses and injuries. So we have a lot going on, with different unique separate disparate motivations for each entity, I speculate. Although MEPS is a whole lot more cryptic and he-said she-said than an AME.

 

[propanelord]

From the airline side of things, I have never heard of someone needing to clear HIMS before getting the FAA medical. I understand that to be a program for pilots already holding CPL’s and ATP’s needing to recover from substance abuse. Not for someone that has yet to be hired. No experience with it myself so I may be wrong. I should add that depending on the circumstance of your past troubles you may not be able to pass the background check. You would need to speak to someone in hiring I suppose.

With appreciation of the effort you put into your questions, I would also encourage you to better condense your questions & comments. With a foot in both the aviation and literature worlds, I would counsel that brevity is always appreciated.

Thank you for the information. I suspect that HIMS is often used to retain people's FAA certificates, but from what I have read and been just told by the HIMS AME, it is also required for some people to make initial entry. I have been wrong before, I could be wrong, and the AME could even be wrong too.

Is HIMS ever or sometimes required for a third class, and/or is HIMS ever or sometimes required for basic med? Good question. I have no idea.

Are you anticipating issues with the FAA background check, or are you anticipating issues with the airline's background check? I'm not sure I ever want to fly a passenger airliner, but I appreciate you raising this topic, because maybe I would. I can continue to renew and be evaluated for a Top Secret DOD clearance, so I suspect I probably am okay, but I've been wrong before. The criminal background check is not something I need to worry about. I have a speeding ticket, some misdemeanors at age 14, and like a failure to use a blinker. And most of it didn't stick. I think I'll be okay, lol. There is also the marijauan and alcohol violations at age 17 and 18 I mentioned earlier.