F-35C in Catapult Hookup Tests

[Old R.O.]

The first F-35C (CF-1) did the first catapult hookup tests on Wednesday, April 6, 2011.

clicky

Is it just me, or isn't it a bigger deal than they're making it out to be that the tow bar didn't mesh up with the shuttle on the initial fit checks?

"The test team also investigated an issue discovered during a preliminary fit check with the launch bar where it did not lower far enough to engage flight deck hardware for the catapult hook up. That test resulted in an improvement made to the launch bar so it will have a greater range of motion."

With all the computer-aided design stuff in play, it seems like this shouldn't have been an issue in the first place. Ah, the joys of flight test.

 

[wlawr005]

Are we really still a year and a half away from putting one of these things on a boat? I figured that guys entering API right now would have some sort of shot at selecting F-35 out of jet advanced.

 

[A4sForever]

....Is it just me, or isn't it a bigger deal than they're making it out to be that the tow bar didn't mesh up with the shuttle on the initial fit checks?
... With all the computer-aided design stuff in play, it seems like this shouldn't have been an issue in the first place. Ah, the joys of flight test.

Yeah, it's not like we haven't been doin' it for at least a couple of years ... :sleep_125

Engineers or Aviators?? *sigh* ... the eternal, still unanswered question; especially when talkin' to Boeing engineers (a class unto themselves). In reality, it's who would you rather have flying your airplane?? The engineer or the Aviator?? The engineers have their opinions and I've had to 'deal' w/ 'em over the decades ... their world-view aeronautical thinking frequently comes down to: now if we could only get rid of those pesky, overpaid, underworked pilots ... we'd have something !!!

Bottom line: I don't build 'em ... I just fly 'em. At least I don't pretend to do both ...

 

[Jim123]

Engineers or Aviators?? *sigh* ... the eternal, still unanswered question; especially when talkin' to Boeing engineers

In the same vein I have a tangent about mechs, not pilots-

One of my college profs shared an anecdote about some meeting/focus group/whatever involving airline maintenance crews and engineers (might have been Boeing but could have been any company). The engineers got an earful about the size of a some important access panels on every airplane the company had built for the past few decades ... something to do with wearing cold weather gear and not being able to fit through the panel and work on whatever was inside. The story might be apocryphal but it makes a good story!

Unfortunately, only a minority of my school peers and professors had ever changed the oil on their own cars or otherwise got their hands dirty

 

[helolumpy]

[their world-view aeronautical thinking frequently comes down to: now if we could only get rid of those pesky, overpaid, underworked pilots ... we'd have something !!! [/B]

And that ladies and gentlemen is one more reason why we have UAV's!!

 

[flaps]

"Engineers or Aviators?? *sigh* ... the eternal, still unanswered question; especially when talkin' to Boeing engineers (a class unto themselves). In reality, it's who would you rather have flying your airplane?? The engineer or the Aviator?? The engineers have their opinions and I've had to 'deal' w/ 'em over the decades ... their world-view aeronautical thinking frequently comes down to: now if we could only get rid of those pesky, overpaid, underworked pilots ... we'd have something !!! "





as a flight test RIO for grumman/ northrop grumman for 30 years, a big part of my job was to be an interface between engineers and aircrews. it was really tough to convince one side that the other side was a necessary evil.

you wanna know who really hated each other guts?
the pax river (navairsyscom, mostly TPS grads) aircrew and the vx4/vx9 opeval aircrews.

to quote a vx4 skipper when describing the pax river aircrew.

" the only difference between those guys and the freeking engineers is a year of flight school."

 

[Brett327]

Are we really still a year and a half away from putting one of these things on a boat? I figured that guys entering API right now would have some sort of shot at selecting F-35 out of jet advanced.

Not even in the ballpark.

Brett

 

[Flying Toaster]

Are we really still a year and a half away from putting one of these things on a boat? I figured that guys entering API right now would have some sort of shot at selecting F-35 out of jet advanced.

I don't know what bearing the IOC would have on selection, but the Navy was suppose to be behind the AF, which was at 2016 and now looks more likely to be 2018. The AF retiring all those A-10's, Vipers, and C models early is now looking like a great call...

Yeah, it's not like we haven't been doin' it for at least a couple of years ... :sleep_125

Engineers or Aviators?? *sigh* ... the eternal, still unanswered question; especially when talkin' to Boeing engineers (a class unto themselves). In reality, it's who would you rather have flying your airplane?? The engineer or the Aviator?? The engineers have their opinions and I've had to 'deal' w/ 'em over the decades ... their world-view aeronautical thinking frequently comes down to: now if we could only get rid of those pesky, overpaid, underworked pilots ... we'd have something !!!

Bottom line: I don't build 'em ... I just fly 'em. At least I don't pretend to do both ...

My experience with engineers has shown they often use that "soft useless tissue in the seat" as an excuse for laziness and shitty engineering. Generally anything that has to be excessively reasoned by the designer as to why it's a "benefit" or doesn't work they way one would think it should, really isn't. Great engineers recognize that pink fleshy thing is in fact the greatest asset and designs things intuitively, making the pair effective. John Browning didn't design firearms that have transcended a full century by whining about how bad humans suck.

 

[helolumpy]

a big part of my job was to be an interface between engineers and aircrews. it was really tough to convince one side that the other side was a necessary evil.

First thing that came to mind... http://www.llakomy.com/Projects/flashvideo/office-space/tom-smykowski-s-interview-with-bobs/view

 

[Pags]

the pax river (navairsyscom, mostly TPS grads) aircrew and the vx4/vx9 opeval aircrews.

to quote a vx4 skipper when describing the pax river aircrew.

" the only difference between those guys and the freeking engineers is a year of flight school."

Haven't seen that attitude at all in my two years on the RW side of the house. The DT guys can be "unique", but we have a very solid working relationship with them. It probably helps that our CO/XO are prior TPS grads as are a few of the DHs. IT for all my programs!

That said, the engineers are not good at talking to the pilots.

 

[HooverPilot]

We had a PMA send some engineers to the squadron last month to help troubleshoot some boxes in the planes. While talking with the CO,who was asking some direct questions, one of the engineers nearly fainted and then walked away claiming he couldn't go on because he hadn't eaten lunch. The other engineer grew visible sweat stains during the conversation. Obviously these guys were not used to being questioned about their stuff!

 

[zipmartin]

Back in the mid-80's, when I was the A-4 NATOPS evaluator for COMNAVAIRESFOR, I was asked to go to NADC Warminster to join other A-4 reps to evaluate a potential replacement for the ESCAPAC ejection seat. The engineers had a seat ready to put into the A-4 and just wanted our final approval. We all took turns sitting in the seat and started asking questions of the guys in white shirts and ties with pocket protectors and pens. After about twenty minutes of questioning and no definitive answers, one of the engineers finally said that actually, we were the first pilots they had talked to. We were dumbfounded. We couldn't believe they were ready to put their design into an airplane and had not once even consulted those who sat in, and trusted their lives to an ejection seat on a daily basis. Needless to say, we never heard anymore about it.

 

[flaps]

"We couldn't believe they were ready to put their design into an airplane and had not once even consulted those who sat in, and trusted their lives to an ejection seat on a daily basis. "

pretty sure that can't happen. zip. nothing gets into airplanes these days without a company/customer aircrew signoff. at least not on the programs i worked on with northrop grumman.
one advantage of contractor aircrews for the customer is that we never really took off our military hats and would generally be advocates for customer requirements.
of course, somebody in the company has to make sure that there is a profit. that wasn't us, though.
one problem with the navy was that the program managers would change quite frequently. the new guy would rarely agree with what his predecessor had defined as requirements and would want to start from scratch..

sorry pal, if you want to redefine requirements, that's over and above the initial estimate and it will cost you.

"and that's when the fight started."

 

[zipmartin]

pretty sure that can't happen. zip. nothing gets into airplanes these days without a company/customer aircrew signoff.

You are correct. We just couldn't believe, even back then, that they had gotten to that point in design and development without having consulted with actual operators/aircrew. Seemed like an incredible waste of time and money.................oh, I forgot, we are talking about government contracts.:icon_wink

 

[RHPF]

And then you've got the 'exception that breaks the rule' ... as when the A-6 was designed and massaged, it was a collaboration between the horn-rimmed frame eggheads & Aviators (heavy emphasis on SPAD drivers) & past (heavy emphasis on A-3 B/Ns) and soon to be future B/Ns ... the way it's supposed to be in a perfect world.

The result: a 'beautiful' and a hugely successful machine.

All images by A4sForever

One thing I could never figure out is why is the probe fixed on the A-6, EA-6? When I first 'noticed' it this year, I was with some other Hornet/Rhino dudes and we assumed it must have some way to retract as it's clearly in the way. Apparently, not...