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F-35B/C Lightning II (Joint Strike Fighter)

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
I suppose his commitment to Afghanistan is all part of his master plan to weaken the U.S. by fighting ragheads so we can cut spending on conventional weapons platforms.

...sigh....
What commitment? He's already setting a withdrawal time line without the Afghans being ready to take over. He hedged forever on the build up and in the end didn't give the military what they asked for. He'd cut and run right now if it wasn't political suicide.
 

Fog

Old RIOs never die: They just can't fast-erect
None
Contributor
I suppose his commitment to Afghanistan is all part of his master plan to weaken the U.S. by fighting ragheads so we can cut spending on conventional weapons platforms.

...sigh....

I would venture that POTUS's actions in Afghanistan reflect (at best) his trying to dumb-down the hand he was dealt (by Bush). Witness (a) his taking 4 months to make a decision on troop additions in late '09 after his military advisors had recommended such action in August and (b) his announcing an Afghan troop withdrawal commencement (in July '11) at the same time he announced the build-up itself. Thinking this president values & wants to preserve the strength of the U.S. military in the current world requires denial on a scale not recommended for one's physical or mental well-being in a dangerous world. JMHO.
 

mmx1

Woof!
pilot
Contributor
And yet he hasn't acceded to Biden's repeated demands for a pure counter-terror strategy. Woodward's account in Obama's Wars doesn't seem to reflect a man trying to weaken the U.S. Assuming ill motives to the president requires creativity more fitting of a fiction writer than for dealing with a dangerous world.

You both talk like it's the President's obligation to give in to military demands. It was Gen. Casey in 2005 that was urging a quicker withdrawal from Iraq, and for a period the JCS and administration were rubber-stamping whatever he wanted. President Bush had to fire quite a few folks to get the surge in place. The buck stops at POTUS and military demands should not be followed unquestioningly.
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
I served/lived through two guttings of our military capabilities. I watched my Dad serve while enduring the same crap. Your turn is coming. Live and learn.
 

Clux4

Banned
I served/lived through two guttings of our military capabilities. I watched my Dad serve while enduring the same crap. You're turn is coming. Live and learn.

Crap, crap, yeah, yeah. Baseless comments again. Obama is trying to ruin the country. Do you know Obama is not a US citizen. He is part of the al Qaeda plan to destroy the US. He is trying to propagate his social agendas that will ultimately result in the demise of this great empire.

I am happy we all have our opinion's. Wouldn't know what to do if I was subjected to this load of ........

But hey, Merry Christmas or Season Greetings.
 

Flying Toaster

Well-Known Member
None
I can't believe I just read all of that. That's a couple minutes of my life I'll never get back.

Glad you spent the time to write a well thought out response.

Of course since I can actually debate and accept being wrong without getting my panties in a wad, some humor relating to your post-

That says it all. You seriously think the POTUS and SECDEF's motives are to cut American military strength? Get a fucking grip.

Yes... Seems pretty obvious, especially in the case of POTUS. Maybe SECDEF in terms of making us an entirely small war force. If your political affiliations are preventing you from seeing that, take the blinders off.

Agreed on some points of your post. I'd respond, but I wouldn't want to waste any of Treetop Flyers precious time with debate, being dismissive is much more productive. As I said, I still hope it works out, but we can't allow ourselves to constantly get in the situation of things being our "only" option. If we keep going down this road with procurements we will have a completely ineffective and overpriced fighting force. I might take some comfort from the fact we might learn, but I haven't seen that happening.
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Wouldn't know what to do if I was subjected to this load of ........
I could easily take care of this. Call it my Christmas present to you. I don't think you'd be missed either.....until we start running out of toilet paper......
 

Pugs

Back from the range
None
Crap, crap, yeah, yeah. Baseless comments again.

Amazing. Simply amazing. I began my career with leaders that watched the gutting of the force after VN through the Carter years then the incredible capability build-up of the Reagan years where I came in at the end through Desert Storm. I then watched our capability decline through the Clinton years, fighting for flight time and parts and then the build up through this current conflicts. I also got to watch the IC get chopped to the bone for a decade and the resultant 9/11 (among other causes).

So, youngster, you can scoff at those that saw it before and feel free to paint us as skeptics of your future but we've been there and you will be too. Waving the whole birther crap at those that have the experience is just plain immature. It's all I've come to expect from some of your generation.
 

pourts

former Marine F/A-18 pilot & FAC, current MBA stud
pilot
I suppose his commitment to Afghanistan is all part of his master plan to weaken the U.S. by fighting ragheads so we can cut spending on conventional weapons platforms.

...sigh....

MMX1, we all you are a smart and well read kid, but you can't honestly say Obama has had a strong commitment to AF since he took office.
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
Glad you spent the time to write a well thought out response.

Of course since I can actually debate and accept being wrong without getting my panties in a wad

If you had made a well thought out argument I would have given you a well thought out response. You read a magazine or something then decided to subject us to your rambling and ignorant post. If I am around my computer and have some time to waste, I might break your post down sentence by sentence. In the meantime, study hard, good luck on getting to flight school, and try not to be too opinionated about stuff you don't have a clue about.
 

Clux4

Banned
Amazing. Simply amazing. I began my career with leaders that watched the gutting of the force after VN through the Carter years then the incredible capability build-up of the Reagan years where I came in at the end through Desert Storm. I then watched our capability decline through the Clinton years, fighting for flight time and parts and then the build up through this current conflicts. I also got to watch the IC get chopped to the bone for a decade and the resultant 9/11 (among other causes).

So, youngster, you can scoff at those that saw it before and feel free to paint us as skeptics of your future but we've been there and you will be too. Waving the whole birther crap at those that have the experience is just plain immature. It's all I've come to expect from some of your generation.

Though I was not in there military during the Clinton years, some things are public knowledge thanks to free speech. I also think the birther comment was immature but it was an attempt to show how immature the points of some of the esteemed board members were.

The draw downs were probably necessary because we could not sustain a build up of that magnitude. It cost money, money that we don't have at the moment. Not with a bad economy. Neo-conservatives will have all believe that the build-up was/is necessary. Yeah, it is not free and something has to give. After Reagan ramped up things, Bush 41 knew he had to draw-down especially with the bad economy. He(Bush) started the draw-down not Clinton. Draw-down was inevitable at that point and the only thing Clinton may have been guilty of was the pace of the draw-down. Obviously, trying to paint Clinton in an unfavorable manner only helps to make the point.
Analyst on both sides of the isle are saying Obama's policies are for all intents and purposes a continuation of Bush 43's policy. Is it the tax cuts for the wealthy, the increase of troops in Afghanistan, bail out of auto-industry(GM), the economy recovery (bail-out) package that was started by the Bush administration. So maybe our policy views are not as far off as the shouting heads will make us believe.

Seems to me that Neo-conservatives and their fiscal responsibility message turn a blind eye to DOD spending. True Republican's will ALWAYS advocate fiscal responsibility and cautioned approach to military involvement.

Here is the question I have though, why is it that when Reagan left office the economy was tanking. When Bush 41 got in, not much happened to resuscitate it and then Clinton years brought prosperity only to be followed by a plunge into the same economic hardship we survived? I know, it is a cycle!!
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Please Santa, for Christmas can I ban this know-it-all permanently? Please? Pretty please?
 
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