F-35B/C Lightning II (Joint Strike Fighter)

[A4sForever]

Did they have a 500' bubble for ACM practice back then? Looks like the A-4 is closer than that to my inexperienced eye.

Looks like 200-300 feet to me ...

But, naaaaaahhhhhh ... no bubble in the Fleet, at least not in practice -- that was in the purview of the FTI's, the TRACOM, and the RAG.

I've pulled off of someone's tail < 100' ... like in 'feet' ... and the F-4 'smoke-maker' is @ 65 feet long ...

 

[SynixMan]

First flight of the F-35C Model...

 

[Birdog8585]

More F-35 Porn

For you JSF junkies/wannabes

 

[wlawr005]

Could anyone shed any light on the test process? I see that Mr. Beasley is a civilian and also the Chief Test Pilot. How and where do the active duty pilots at Pax River fit into the equation?

 

[HeyJoe]

Could anyone shed any light on the test process? I see that Mr. Beasley is a civilian and also the Chief Test Pilot. How and where do the active duty pilots at Pax River fit into the equation?

JSF established an Integrated Test Force (ITF) in which Contractor and Government/International Test Pilots operate togehter vice in separate domains of Contractor Test/Govt Developmental Test(DT)/Govt Operational Test (OT) taskings. This blurs the traditional lines, but allows better comms and supposedly less time and lower costs. Combined/Integrated Testing has been more and more popular mainly because of anticipated cost savings. Generally, you see more Contractor hands on in early stages with that giving way to more and more Developmental Test Pilots and finally the Operational Testers (most of Operational Testers are not Test Pilot School grads as they are tasked to represent the Fleet level of experiene/perspective and fly production representative aircraft*).

*Rather than wait for first LRIP examples, combined DT/OT testing allows OT pilots to get familiar with aircraft prior to arrival of LRIP aircraft so there is no spool up time.

LRIP = Limited Rate Initial Production (Congress and DoD allow LRIP examples to be procured to provide enough production representative aircraft for OPEVAL (Operational Evaluation) by OT organizations that are independent of the Service Aquisition CoC and report to their HQ (COMOPTEVFOR for Navy and AFOTEC for Air Force), which in turn reports to OSD level Director of Operational Test & Evaluation.

 

[wlawr005]

JSF established an Integrated Test Force (ITF) in which Contractor and Government/International Test Pilots operate togehter vice in separate domains of Contractor Test/Govt Developmental Test(DT)/Govt Operational Test (OT) taskings. This blurs the traditional lines, but allows better comms and supposedly less time and lower costs. Combined/Integrated Testing has been more and more popular mainly because of anticipated cost savings. Generally, you see more Contractor hands on in early stages with that giving way to more and more Developmental Test Pilots and finally the Operational Testers (most of Operational Testers are not Test Pilot School grads as they are tasked to represent the Fleet level of experiene/perspective and fly production representative aircraft*).

*Rather than wait for first LRIP examples, combined DT/OT testing allows OT pilots to get familiar with aircraft prior to arrival of LRIP aircraft so there is no spool up time.

LRIP = Limited Rate Initial Production (Congress and DoD allow LRIP examples to be procured to provide enough production representative aircraft for OPEVAL (Operational Evaluation) by OT organizations that are independent of the Service Aquisition CoC and report to their HQ (COMOPTEVFOR for Navy and AFOTEC for Air Force), which in turn reports to OSD level Director of Operational Test & Evaluation.

Excellent answer...thank you. My Navy brain tells me that this makes the most sense, but isn't a 2nd tour LT supposed to be a "technical expert" in his aircraft? I thought that no pilot was ever more proficient than when he came off his first combat cruise and reported to his first shore duty. Shouldn't the guys that have been in theatre recently be the ones to evaluate the pros and cons of a new weapons system?

I understand that there are no fleet representatives of the F-35, but is this new co-op testing model being introduced to all platforms, or just the F-35?

 

[HeyJoe]

Excellent answer...thank you. My Navy brain tells me that this makes the most sense, but isn't a 2nd tour LT supposed to be a "technical expert" in his aircraft? I thought that no pilot was ever more proficient than when he came off his first combat cruise and reported to his first shore duty. Shouldn't the guys that have been in theatre recently be the ones to evaluate the pros and cons of a new weapons system?

That's exactly who they pull into Operational Test Director (OTD) jobs at VX-9. The initial testing in Contractor and Developmental stages are related to "Spec" (as in Specification) compliance (ie does it go as far and high and fast as contracted for) and envelope expansion as they literally write the book ("Gray" book at that stage before it's close to being NATOPS or Dash 1). When they know it works as advertised, the full weapons system is turned over to the Operational Testers who will be literally guys off their first tours with not a lot of "adult supervision".

I understand that there are no fleet representatives of the F-35, but is this new co-op testing model being introduced to all platforms, or just the F-35?

Integrated Test teams have been around for several platforms including the H-1 Upgrades, V-22 and later F/A-18 models.

 

[wlawr005]

sweet...thanks, sir. I was under the impression that those said LT's were graduates of TPS, not just "off the shelf" at VX-9

 

[HeyJoe]

sweet...thanks, sir. I was under the impression that those said LT's were graduates of TPS, not just "off the shelf" at VX-9

The ratio of TPS grads in DT squadrons (where they are the majority) is inversely proportional to OT squadrons where they are a slim minority. Here's some reading that will help you clarify the differences.

 

[Pags]

That's exactly who they pull into Operational Test Director (OTD) jobs at VX-9. The initial testing in Contractor and Developmental stages are related to "Spec" (as in Specification) compliance (ie does it go as far and high and fast as contracted for) and envelope expansion as they literally write the book ("Gray" book at that stage before it's close to being NATOPS or Dash 1). When they know it works as advertised, the full weapons system is turned over to the Operational Testers who will be literally guys off their first tours with not a lot of "adult supervision".

Integrated Test teams have been around for several platforms including the H-1 Upgrades, V-22 and later F/A-18 models.

VX-1 does the OT for all the RW and non-strike FW Navy aircaft.

IT is the "new" hotness for the test world. COTF (owner of the OT effort) is a big supporter of the idea. Other programs include E-2D, OAMCM, MQ-8B, and P-8.

HeyJoe, thanks for making this post as much like work as possible. Next up, six part paragraph training follwed by some DAU certification!

 

[Pags]

sweet...thanks, sir. I was under the impression that those said LT's were graduates of TPS, not just "off the shelf" at VX-9

One thing to remember is that each squadron is responsible for it's piece of the pie. For example: Sikorsky will do CT on an MH-60S system. HX-21 will do the DT. VX-1 sends pilots for "DT assist" and the IT phase of testing (once the Test Pilot stuff like envelope expansion, captive carriage, etc is done). Later, the system becomes the sole property of VX-1 in order to complete the OT. VX-1 will be assisted by TAs (trusted agents) from the FRS and the fleet squadron that will be the first to get the system.

 

[SoloDaNINJA]

F35's

Does the replacement of all the of the USMC jets by F35 B's mean that USMC will no longer deploy on Aircraft Carriers? F35 B does not have a tail hook. As a result, will Naval Aviation have to grow?

 

[mcowles85]

The F-35b is a short take off vertical landing variant. It wouldn't need a tail hook to operate off of an amphibious assault ship, much like the harrier does. So maybe either a tail hook will be added or we can expect to see operations similar to those performed on amphibious assault ships aboard carriers also. Just a thought.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

They aren't going to "add a tailhook" to the F-35B. Either they will operate F-35B from big and small deck carriers, or (more likely) the Marines will also buy C's.

 

[SoloDaNINJA]

Yes, it is my understanding that F35 B's are not carrier compatible. Thats what C's are for. I assume they (USMC F-35 B's) will operate off of Amphibious Assault Ships (420 is alot of airplanes to just operate off of Amphibious Assault ships). I really hope the Marines buy C's too.