F-117 Retired??

[hlg6016]

I was on active duty when the Air Force was forced to go public with the airframe after Panama. AF never intended for it to do ground support in support of say a platoon in contact, That's where my viewpoint stems from. As I mentioned before is is an amazing piece of pioneering technology and it's not a bad thing that it is earning it's keep. Rumor mill at the time was that there was weird things (Not just the MIGS) flying up there in Nevada and if you saw anything to remember that you saw nothing.

 

[Swanee]

We stuck to library paste and paint chips in my day, As I stated before at my level if could not fly off a boat and drop some bombs or put some warheads on foreheads it was not going to do me much good, It had a lousy bomb load as it was. It was how ever a pioneer for the technology that todays aircraft have. It was a start.

I was on active duty when the Air Force was forced to go public with the airframe after Panama. AF never intended for it to do ground support in support of say a platoon in contact, That's where my viewpoint stems from. As I mentioned before is is an amazing piece of pioneering technology and it's not a bad thing that it is earning it's keep. Rumor mill at the time was that there was weird things (Not just the MIGS) flying up there in Nevada and if you saw anything to remember that you saw nothing.

Those F-117s brought as much (perhaps more, as they could carry 2 GBU-27s or GBU-31s.) loadout to a fight as a Harrier could, minus the gun.

It allowed those attack airplanes to get to you.

There are some great Americans who laid it on the line, going into downtown Baghdad on night 1, with nothing but the promise that our stealth tech worked to keep them safe. My old man is friends with Dale Zelko. I've been lucky enough to have a few conversations with him over beers at barbecues and what not and got to hear some of his stories. The one that stick with me is when he talked about night 1 in Baghdad. He said it was like flying into the heart of a finale at a fireworks display on the 4th of July over Washington, DC. "I hope this (yet unproven in combat) stealth stuff works against the 5th largest military in the world." Those dudes on night 1 had giant brass balls that needed a wheelbarrow to walk out to the airplane.

Everyone is useful, everyone has their role to play. If one part fails, the rest of us are going to have to work extra hard to pick up the slack.

 

[nittany03]

We stuck to library paste and paint chips in my day, As I stated before at my level if could not fly off a boat and drop some bombs or put some warheads on foreheads it was not going to do me much good, It had a lousy bomb load as it was. It was how ever a pioneer for the technology that todays aircraft have. It was a start.

I was on active duty when the Air Force was forced to go public with the airframe after Panama. AF never intended for it to do ground support in support of say a platoon in contact, That's where my viewpoint stems from.

I’m just going to reach back to the sidebar from Neptunus Lex’s old place (RIP) and quote Julius Caesar as imagined by George Bernard Shaw:

“Pardon him, Theodotus. He is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature.”

 

[hscs]

Based on what, exactly? This aircraft probably saved more American Aviators lives than any other platform, by taking out strategic infrastructure and Iraqi air defense nodes the night before the air war actually kicked off. For that, I'd say it had an ideal bomb load.

Which war? OIF early start didn’t do anything. First start for ODS yes, with Pave Low, Apache, and S-3 assistance.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Know what you need to do CAS? A two-way radio and some ordnance.

Everything else is just TTPs.

 

[Hopeful Hoya]

If you haven't read it yet, Ben Rich's book Skunk Works is an excellent read from the man who came up under Kelly Johnson on the U-2 and SR-71 and was the driving force behind Have Blue and the F-117.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Know what you need to do CAS? A two-way radio and some ordnance.

Everything else is just TTPs.

You also need an aircraft, though.

 

[HSMPBR]

If you haven't read it yet, Ben Rich's book Skunk Works is an excellent read from the man who came up under Kelly Johnson on the U-2 and SR-71 and was the driving force behind Have Blue and the F-117.

Is that the book that makes active duty folks really angry at how we do day-to-day business?

 

[HuggyU2]

If you haven't read it yet, Ben Rich's book Skunk Works is an excellent read from the man who came up under Kelly Johnson on the U-2 and SR-71 and was the driving force behind Have Blue and the F-117.

I'll second that.
A pilot in my Flight back in the 90's was Fred Dyson. His dad was one of two pilot to fly Have Blue. IIRC, he punched out of it.

Panama was mentioned above: it was reported that the -117 missed its target, which was a barracks. False. The planners didn't want to kill people in the barracks, just stun them, and planned to hit an area next to the barracks... which the -117 did perfectly. Of course, that got reported as a miss. The pilot, Beast Feest, ended up making 2-stars.

 

[Brett327]

Which war? OIF early start didn’t do anything. First start for ODS yes, with Pave Low, Apache, and S-3 assistance.

I'm talking about ODS. By OIF, the B-2 was performing that role.

 

[HuggyU2]

Good article on the F-117's opening attack in OIF.

THE STORY OF THE F-117 NIGHTHAWK AIRSTRIKES OVER BAGHDAD THAT MARKED THE BEGINNING OF OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM - The Aviation Geek Club

THE STORY OF THE F-117 NIGHTHAWK AIRSTRIKES OVER BAGHDAD THAT MARKED THE BEGINNING OF OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM

theaviationgeekclub.com

 

[Gatordev]

going into downtown Baghdad on night 1, with nothing but the promise that our stealth tech worked to keep them safe.

It's possible I'm misrembering or heard this on one of the old Discovery Wings shows, but I thought the F-117s went in with -111s for support. While it turned out that the F-117s were very capable on their own, I was under the impression that they weren't actually "stealthy" that first night because of all of the extra 'trons going out from the package.

 

[Flash]

Good article on the F-117's opening attack in OIF.

THE STORY OF THE F-117 NIGHTHAWK AIRSTRIKES OVER BAGHDAD THAT MARKED THE BEGINNING OF OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM - The Aviation Geek Club

THE STORY OF THE F-117 NIGHTHAWK AIRSTRIKES OVER BAGHDAD THAT MARKED THE BEGINNING OF OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM

theaviationgeekclub.com

There was a sizeable flattened building on Victory Base Complex that everyone 'knew' was the target of an attack to hit Iraqi leadership, the story was a bunch of generals were watching 'Pretty Woman' the night before the war when it got bombed killing them all. How true the story was I don't know but the building was untouched since it had been bombed and causeway to get to what was left of that building was permanently closed off.

 

[Flash]

It's possible I'm misrembering or heard this on one of the old Discovery Wings shows, but I thought the F-117s went in with -111s for support. While it turned out that the F-117s were very capable on their own, I was under the impression that they weren't actually "stealthy" that first night because of all of the extra 'trons going out from the package.

They did, my former Skipper was an EF-111 EWO and flew in support of the F-117 strikes on Baghdad the first night of Desert Storm. Apparently there was a bit of heartburn when the USAF later claimed they went in 'unsupported' but the 111's weren't covering anyone else going 'downtown' that night.

And while they are harder to spot 'stealth' planes aren't invisible, even back then to the Iraqis, which is why they needed the EA support.

 

[Brett327]

It's possible I'm misrembering or heard this on one of the old Discovery Wings shows, but I thought the F-117s went in with -111s for support. While it turned out that the F-117s were very capable on their own, I was under the impression that they weren't actually "stealthy" that first night because of all of the extra 'trons going out from the package.

Prowlers and EF-111. EA support continues to be required for all LO platforms, even 5th Gen.