I hadn't thought about that. An excellent point.
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Everyone says don't enlist... (OCS non-select, considering enlisting)
- Thread starter werdna
- Start date
I hadn't thought about that. An excellent point.
This is true. wlawr005 is correct. When I was going through the school in 2001 they had at least a 65% attrition rate and I would say it was closer to 70%. I watched people dropping out in Starboard D (the holding period to class up for those of you that don't know) in the ball park of 20-30%. One of the funniest things I heard at the school is when a guy showed up like your saying "could hardly swim," the instructors called him a controlled drowning victim and they were not there to teach him how to swim. Needless to say he was cut after 2 weeks. S.O.B were you an instructor at the boat SAR school or the Aircrew Rescue Swimmer School? I was told there is a huge difference between the two schools and attrition rates. I went through the Aircrew Rescue Swimmer School version and those were about the percentages I seen go through the school while I was waiting to class up, when I was classed up, and finally when I was on med hold then DQ'd for an injury.
OP: I would agree with S.O.B.
@ ARSS and I find it hard to believe that a Navy "bean counter" would accept those kind of numbers due to the lost $$. Sounds more like BUDS numbers. I can see rolling a third of the class but attriting someone was a huge deal and you would have maybe one or two a class.
What happens to the to the attrites? Do they become P3 or 53 crewman?
What happens to the to the attrites? Do they become P3 or 53 crewman?
robertdm27
New Member
SOB, When I went through ARSS in 05 my class started with 30 something guys but only like 12 of us graduated. The guys that were dropped or DORed got sent to the fleet undesignated most of the time. We even had dry guys that were requesting to go through after AW "A" school and if they didn't pass ARSS they were dropped from the aircrew program completely. From what I was told it was a manning issue then and kind of like it is now for pilots and so forth they were being much more selective because they could. Now the AWR rate is severely undermanned but the advancement is like 1.5 percent( no joke on that number) The good news for me is i no longer do that, but I already miss it.
I found it hard to believe but I witnessed it firsthand. In fact ARSS actually compared the attrition rates to SEALs (proud of it) and I heard a rumor that the Navy told them that their attrition rate was too high (fix it). I would see approximately 5 people (+/- 2) a week getting kicked out of the program and get sent to the fleet or school (if they deemed them worthy). When they were attriting people they would send them to the fleet undesignated. When I was in the office with the OIC and Senior Chief they started going off on people. I think there were 7 of us in the office at the time. Senior was saying there are some of you that have tried to do this but do to physical inabilities/injuries you were unable to continue on and we would like to see you back in the future. For the rest of you and you know who you are I hope you enjoy being undes in the fleet. I was sent to "A" school while doing physical therapy then to P-3 FRS and the other person that got hurt went on to be a P-3 crewman as well. I checked around school to see if they were blowing smoke up people’s butts but they were not so my only conclusion was they went to the fleet undes. I was in charge of the Med hold individuals for ARSS and NACCS when I was med down. It was not difficult to determine who was faking and those that were really hurt. Also, when I was going through the program you could only be on med hold for 3 or 4 weeks then they would send you on to the next program.
mountainman
Member
Given that you are older and have a college degree, I would think long and hard before you commit to the enlisted route. Are you going to be able to handle going back to being treated like a ten year old, spending most of your waking hours standing watch, cleaning toilets, and making next to nothing? That will be your life while you go through the TRACOMS. I couldn't get away from that side of the house fast enough. I would reapply or simply look elsewhere.
OP: Have you thought about trying different officer programs before pursuing the enlisted route?
Yes. AF seems unlikely (recruiters won't talk to below at 3.0 GPA and I hear they don't accept DUIs), Marines are not taking any DUIs at the moment, and I'm going to put in for Coast Guard.
I'm also scheduled to retake the ASTB and have applied to Embry Riddle for a grad program in aeronautics. If I do not end up going enlisted, I at least have a game plan. However, like I said earlier, I think the age waiver would be a huge help for me.
I would NOT retake the ASTB given the scores you have. I think that would be a huge gamble on your part. I would recommend doing more volunteer work, try getting an interview with a high ranking Pilot/NFO or get better/more LOR's, and try working on your motivational statement. Also the grad work will help offset the bachelors GPA if you excel in it.
What I was getting at is I understand you are interested in aviation but would you not be happy as an AMDO, SWO, PAO, INTEL, etc...?
Because of this statement I would not recommend becoming enlisted. I don't think you really understand what it’s going to be like as an enlisted. Even if you were to become an enlisted flier I believe you will be doing yourself more harm than good. As it has been previously stated going enlisted does not always give you a back door into being an officer. In fact if you are not 100% committed as an enlisted individual you could actually ruin your chances of becoming an officer. Once you get out to the fleet that is when you will be able to apply for OCS again and if you are not one of the best your chain will not give the recommendations needed to become an officer and ultimately an Aviator. I don't know this for sure but your chances of crossing into the aviation community from another officer community is about the same as it would be to apply for OCS as an enlisted individual. I have met several outstanding enlisted sailors that were up for and won JSOQ, SOQ, JSOY, etc... not get accepted to OCS. Many of them are still applying and continue to improve their packages. I believe you are correct and need to really think about what is going to be best for you but I am not convinced that enlisting would be the appropriate route.
If you wanted to serve then I would recommend adding another officer community into your application. If you wanted to serve but are only interested in aviation I would have recommended going enlisted as a flier or looking into the warrant program (Army or Navy).
EM1
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit
Just an FYI-The Coast Guard is one the smallest branches and has always been one of the pickiest, and they just announced they're cutting enlisted recruiting down to 2250 for the entire next FY, I doubt the Officer side will be much better. Rear Admiral Hewitt put out an interesting letter regarding this you may want to look at. Not saying dont apply, just saying it wont necessarily be easier than the Navy because of sheer manning levels.
Why are you not looking Army?
to clarify twobecrazy's comment on flying warrants. Army will take them off the street. For the Navy you have to be the top of your enlisted game and submit an application as enlisted. Very few are selected annually.
Why are you not looking Army?
to clarify twobecrazy's comment on flying warrants. Army will take them off the street. For the Navy you have to be the top of your enlisted game and submit an application as enlisted. Very few are selected annually.
Immy
New Member
If you really want to fly...I would look at Army Warrant Officer Flight Training.
From what I understand, if you're persistent with your recruiter, you can get picked up straight off the street to become an Army pilot if your package is good enough. Seeing as you have a degree and a pilot's license, and the degree is not a requirement (nor is the pilot's license, but its effect is debatable), you might have a decent shot.
Now enlisting in the Navy to become a commissioned officer is generally considered not the right thing to do, but from what I understand about the Army, it's actually easier to become a warrant officer pilot from the enlisted side of the house than it is to get in off the street. So, you could consider enlisting in the Army and pushing for warrant officer if they don't take you off the street.
Anyways, that's just what I know about my research into Army aviation. If flying in the military is your #1 goal, I would give it a look. Though I'm also certain there's a few Army pilots on this board who could shed some light on flying in the Army.
From what I understand, if you're persistent with your recruiter, you can get picked up straight off the street to become an Army pilot if your package is good enough. Seeing as you have a degree and a pilot's license, and the degree is not a requirement (nor is the pilot's license, but its effect is debatable), you might have a decent shot.
Now enlisting in the Navy to become a commissioned officer is generally considered not the right thing to do, but from what I understand about the Army, it's actually easier to become a warrant officer pilot from the enlisted side of the house than it is to get in off the street. So, you could consider enlisting in the Army and pushing for warrant officer if they don't take you off the street.
Anyways, that's just what I know about my research into Army aviation. If flying in the military is your #1 goal, I would give it a look. Though I'm also certain there's a few Army pilots on this board who could shed some light on flying in the Army.