Flak Panzer.........Sehr Gut!
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Europe under extreme duress
- Thread starter Randy Daytona
- Start date
It being a meme dates from the VEH-DEH-VEH collectively tripping over their own dicks at Hostomel and other places last February, and generally getting clowned on after.
VDV / Russian Airborne Forces
The VDV, also known as the Russian Airborne Forces, refers to an airborne branch of the Russian army, which was formed during World War II and split following the dissolution of the Soviet Union, reducing its size. During the 2021-2022 Russia-Ukraine conflict, VDV troops were repeatedly deployed...
knowyourmeme.com
The director of the Holloway (Russia) Advanced Research Program at the Naval War College gives a brief called the "Russian Way of War" I've seen several times. He has a picture early on in the brief of VDV guys marching in Red Square and likes to morbidly joke that most of those guys are probably dead now.
"Hey, I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule." --Randall Graves
“You know what the real tragedy about all this is? I'm not even supposed to be here today!”
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
Random8145
Registered User
One point though, I don't think mass-scale war production is ever possible in any peacetime economy. Usually it takes a year or so in a major conflict to start really scaling up industrial production. Churchill had a quote on this, I can't find it, but paraphrasing, it goes something like, In the first year of war, you never have enough stuff, in the second and third years, you start getting just enough, in the fourth and fifth years, you have all you could want.Everybody is having problems with manpower- look how our services are missing recruiting goals.
I am more interested in who can sustain their ammunition stockpiles. As industrial war was thought to be a relic of the past, who has the capability of manufacturing artillery shells, etc in bulk? On a related subject, are countermeasures affordable? Wonder if the cheapness of kamikaze drones and the expense of anti-air missiles will result in a return of anti-aircraft guns?
Shooting Down A $14,000 Geran-2 UAV With A Million Dollar Missile Cannot Win That War For Ukraine - Experts
Ukraine is spending significantly more money on countering the threat from Shahed-136 'kamikaze' drones fired at its cities than Russia spends on acquiring and launching these Iranian-made drones.eurasiantimes.com
On a slightly political note that I hope is within bounds, I think this shows Trump was very perceptive in his steel and aluminum tariffs in this sense, in arguing the importance of such materials for our economy, infrastructure, and military, and that the Chinese are trying to destroy such industries by flooding the market with cheap steel and aluminum. I also remember the military at the time made a statement saying they had all the steel and aluminum they needed, which personally I never understood, as the issue is what would they need in wartime, not peacetime. Things like armored vehicles, artillery guns, aircraft, ships, etc...all use steel and aluminum. Now we are seeing an example of how the ability to engage in scaled up production of such is still very important.
Random8145
Registered User
Been kinda wondering about that. Hope they aren't over complicating the logistics for Ukraine.
We are, but we really don't have a choice. We are going them stuff that is available right now, with time as critical as it is right now the Ukrainians don't have anywhere near the time to get new kit the standard ways. That would involve a selection process, contract negotiation followed by the gradual introduction then finally actually fielding a new type of weapon. At the height of the Cold War and with Reagan money it took us over 15 years to do that with the M1 replacing the M60, more instructively some of our Eastern European allies like the Poles still haven't replaced their Soviet-era tanks over 30 years after the end of the Cold War. Add the training and sustainment pieces on top of that and it gets really complex.
It is interesting to me that we are giving them a pretty small number of tanks (M1's, Leoapard 2's and Challenger 2's), my assumption is that the Ukrainians will use that as some type of spearhead to punch a hole in the Russian lines for the rest of the Ukrainian military. I'll be interesting to see how things play out later this year.
Random8145
Registered User
What is your opinion on the criticism that the administration is being too slow in sending equipment, saying it would be too provocative to send certain weapons only to then later send them anyway (such as tanks). IMO, they need to be more assertive in their support of Ukraine.
I have read it is believed that the Russians may try a counter offensive this Spring/Summer and/or the Ukrainians as well.