Europe under extreme duress

[Hotdogs]

I'm guessing there's always a fight during the NATOPS brief on who sits front seat, with the placement of that 🎯 by the rear seat..😆

In the whiskey - rear seat always. FS was a shitshow of ergonomics due to modifications since the 1980s.

Most ground gunners can’t breakout the roundels on aircraft during engagements. They’re too small, and the relative speed difference doesn’t make it useful for cueing anyways. If they can break it out, they’re probably pretty close to being dead anyways.

 

[JTS11]

In the whiskey - rear seat always. FS was a shitshow of ergonomics due to modifications since the 1980s.

Most ground gunners can’t breakout the roundels on aircraft during engagements. They’re too small, and the relative speed difference doesn’t make it useful for cueing anyways. If they can break it out, they’re probably pretty close to being dead anyways.

I do remember some of my peers who flew Whiskeys talking of the front seat experience of shooting actual approaches back to NFG (head cocked off to the side looking at a small meatball). Don't know if that's accurate or not.

Also, like you mentioned bc of all the mods, that shooting certain weapons (TOWs?) was a Rube Goldberg exercise in pulling circuit breakers? You obviously know better.

My old airframe is now that only 1980 tech left in the USMC arsenal...sigh

 

[taxi1]

Roundel =

 

[jmcquate]

The RAF and RN went from the standard roundels to a blue and white marking in the Pacific during WWII. Turns out the red dot in the middle was problematic for IFF.

 

[Hotdogs]

I do remember some of my peers who flew Whiskeys talking of the front seat experience of shooting actual approaches back to NFG (head cocked off to the side looking at a small meatball). Don't know if that's accurate or not.

Also, like you mentioned bc of all the mods, that shooting certain weapons (TOWs?) was a Rube Goldberg exercise in pulling circuit breakers? You obviously know better.

My old airframe is now that only 1980 tech left in the USMC arsenal...sigh

FS didn’t have a dual engine six pack and had a massive telescoping bucket for a targeting sensor in the middle of panel… which caused the head cocking for an instrument scan. No VSI in the FS, either. It was a Spatial D machine with how everything was arranged. TOW/HF computer on the left was very vintage with an early Game Boy level computer interface. Yes, there were secret cheat codes in order to do certain functions (NVM dump, laser boresight, etc). It was a bitch to learn. CB memorization became standard because resetting was the only way to trick fuck the system into working properly. They also had to be reset in a certain order. Great aircraft; but cutting your teeth on it was painful. People wondered why we were so angry at each other all the time.

 

[JTS11]

Great aircraft; but cutting your teeth on it was painful. People wondered why we were so angry at each other all the time.

It builds character. 😆

 

[JTS11]

FS didn’t have a dual engine six pack and had a massive telescoping bucket for a targeting sensor in the middle of panel… which caused the head cocking for an instrument scan. No VSI in the FS, either. It was a Spatial D machine with how everything was arranged. TOW/HF computer on the left was very vintage with an early Game Boy level computer interface. Yes, there were secret cheat codes in order to do certain functions (NVM dump, laser boresight, etc). It was a bitch to learn. CB memorization became standard because resetting was the only way to trick fuck the system into working properly. They also had to be reset in a certain order. Great aircraft; but cutting your teeth on it was painful. People wondered why we were so angry at each other all the time.

The only thing I can relate to on my end was the different ASE mods over the years. The ultimate ASE system that had to be trick-fucked was the ALE-39 (70's Tech) dispenser pods, before it was upgraded, along with other systems.

 

[JTS11]

I mean, I kind of concur, but the symbols are rather a matter of national pride than identification. We are long past needing a symbol to actually see with the old Mk.1 eyeball. Most (gunpowder and shell) gunners today are going to aim for mass, not any specific part.

Yep, even if this hypothetical plays out to the helo landing in a 'hot' LZ, the dudes aren't shooting at the back of the engine. The fire is going into the cockpit and cabin.

I'll make a few assumptions. That -60 that was crowd-funded and was delivered with that livery, it was a good PR win, and a good photo with troops exiting from the back. Also, that aircraft will never operate anywhere near the front lines.

 

[Random8145]

I'll bet the Germans were quite appreciative of those big stars:

 

[Random8145]

Yep, even if this hypothetical plays out to the helo landing in a 'hot' LZ, the dudes aren't shooting at the back of the engine. The fire is going into the cockpit and cabin.

I'll make a few assumptions. That -60 that was crowd-funded and was delivered with that livery, it was a good PR win, and a good photo with troops exiting from the back. Also, that aircraft will never operate anywhere near the front lines.

This just came out today, apparently Ukraine now has two Blackhawks, having acquired a second one. There is also a crowdfunding campaign ongoing in the Czech Republic to buy Ukraine a third one. Russia claimed it shot down a Ukrainian Blackhawk with twenty troops aboard, but Ukraine says that's propaganda. The Defense Intelligence Directorate of Ukraine claims they are using the Blackhawks for combat missions, mainly special operations type missions, but they do not elaborate beyond that. Here is the video just released showing two of them:

 

[JTS11]

I'll bet the Germans were quite appreciative of those big stars:

View attachment 40084

Yes, and that worked out well for the Germans.

What is your obsession with this topic?

 

[Random8145]

Yes, and that worked out well for the Germans.

What is your obsession with this topic?

I just thought regarding the Sherman that it was kind of funny in hindsight, so threw it in there.

 

[JTS11]

This just came out today, apparently Ukraine now has two Blackhawks, having acquired a second one. There is also a crowdfunding campaign ongoing in the Czech Republic to buy Ukraine a third one. Russia claimed it shot down a Ukrainian Blackhawk with twenty troops aboard, but Ukraine says that's propaganda. The Defense Intelligence Directorate of Ukraine claims they are using the Blackhawks for combat missions, mainly special operations type missions, but they do not elaborate beyond that. Here is the video just released showing two of them:

This is PR. 2 or 4 -60's doesn't matter. They need shells. More than that, they need western democracies to not be a bunch of pussies. I'll leave it at that.

Edit: I'll add that if the US abandons UKR support, it will be a stain on our country and will have repercussions for many years to come, IMHO.

 

[Gatordev]

@Random8145 something to keep in mind is that if you shoot at the roundel, the engine isn't going to be hit. Best case, nothing will be hit and the rounds will pass behind the exhaust. Worst case, the TGB or tail rotor will be hit.

In Vietnam, it wasn't uncommon for the crew chiefs to take fire that was being aimed at the cockpits, which the NVA/VC would target.

 

[JTS11]

@Random8145 something to keep in mind is that if you shoot at the roundel, the engine isn't going to be hit. Best case, nothing will be hit and the rounds will pass behind the exhaust. Worst case, the TGB or tail rotor will be hit.

In Vietnam, it wasn't uncommon for the crew chiefs to take fire that was being aimed at the cockpits, which the NVA/VC would target.

I can barely hit a clay with a 12 gauge with any kind of crossing angle inside of 10 yards