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Ensignhood, debt, cars, and family help therewith

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Daisy

New Member
I hope I selected the correct sub-forum.

I'm a civilian mom with a son in NROTC. He hopes to be in Naval Aviation when he graduates from college.

His dad and I are paying for his room and board at college (roughly $10K/year) because we would like for him to graduate with as little debt as possible and are guessing that navy ensigns make an entry-level salary.

However, we have another child about to enter college and we need to further consider our financial obligations.

I would appreciate if anyone could offer a general idea of how much debt most NROTC grads carry with them to post college training and how well are they managing. Anecdotal is okay.

Also do many people bring their own vehicles to aviation training. Is a car a necessity?

Thanks so much.
 

loadtoad

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
A car is most definitely a necessity to have once he begins training. Well I take that back. IF he lives on base in the Bachelor Officer Quarters he can get away with not having a car. He will not have any transportation into town though and there is not much to do on these bases.

As far as debt I have many friends who do not have any. On the other hand I know a few guys with over $100K in school debt. There is a wide range.
 

torpedo0126

Member
If your paying for his roommate and board and he has to assume his living expenses he's going to be just fine. A single ENS makes comparatively a lot of money for someone his age. If he does have any debt and can manage it, it should fly off pretty fast.

The previous post mentioned about living in the BOQ. This is true, however, since he is a pilot his orders will be temporary orders until he gets to Primary. That means he will be paying to live in the BOQ and won't be reimbursed until he gets to Primary. I found that out after living there for 2 weeks while looking for a place. Got slapped with a $600 bill that I won't be seeing for some time.

To summarize, he should be fine on debt and have him invest in a car.
 

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
FWIW, a single Ensign stationed in P'cola makes about $40K a year before taxes. I don't know if that's considered entry-level pay nowadays, but it's definitely not subsistence. As a guy on contract, we won't be carrying as much debt as many when he graduates. In addition, he should have the opportunity to take out a very low-interest career starter loan which will be sufficient to buy a car (not a Lexus or anything, but...)

All this by way of saying, time to start teaching him to be financially independant. Not saying cut him off tomorrow, but he'll be making a decent salary as an Ensign and needs to stand on his own two feet.
 

zab1001

Well-Known Member
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
To all:

Stay respectful and on topic in regard to the Original Poster's legitmate questions.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I would appreciate if anyone could offer a general idea of how much debt most NROTC grads carry with them to post college training and how well are they managing. Anecdotal is okay.

Also do many people bring their own vehicles to aviation training. Is a car a necessity?

Thanks so much.

As a few guys have already said, there is the definite need for a car when he starts his training, I never knew anyone without one. There are several banks that cater to military personnel, including USAA and NFCU, and they generally offer pretty good rates on car loans to new officers. Many of my friends and I used this opportunity to get a 'Ensignmobile' when we graduated. That is in addition to some offering a 'career starter loan' of #25,000 at just 2% (USAA Career Starter Loan)

When I was commissioned I started out with only two payments, my car loan and student loans. Combined they took up about a 1/3 of my monthly take home pay. I know some that had less and some that had more, but I don't remember any of us that were left wanting or had serious financial issues starting out. The only guys who were concerned about money were those with a family and they always had enough too, they were just more careful. I was always able to buy nice things for myself, in addition to saving.

One small piece of advice, when your son gets closer to commissioning he might want to join USAA and talk to some of their investment people. They are a bank that specifically caters to military personnel and give sound financial advice, especially to those starting out. He would be able to set up investments and loans through them, and they are very aware of the financial situation facing new officers. Just a suggestion.

Best of luck to your son!
 

BigIron

Remotely piloted
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
It's also important to note that financial responsibility is a must for a navy officer. Too much unsecured debt that's not being managed will be a red flag for any security clearance he needs.

You didn't say how far along in school he's got left. It's very common for guys to be commissioned with some school debt and a car payment. A car is a must. Doesn't mean he's got to have a pimped out ride.
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
You guys saying "cut the umbilical" are out of line.

Parents paying their child's college room and board is not an "umbilical". It's parents doing as they see best for their child. That's what parents do and it is their decision based on their circumstances and what they can afford.

Here's a news flash for you - my parents paid 100% of both my brother's and my tuition, books, room, board, living expenses, cars and car insurance while we were in college. They wanted us to concentrate on getting the best education possible without worrying about money. We both worked part-time jobs for our drinking money but very they were minimal part-time jobs.

Their parents did the same for them and both my brother and I will be doing the same for our children. In fact, unless our kids decide on Harvard, we both have the money already put aside to cover this.

No umbilical - just parents being parents and good parent-children relationships.

I think what Daisy is doing for her kids is awesome. As Zab said, leave the commentary out and stick to answering her questions.

Daisy,

As of 1/1/2009, as a newly commissioned Ensign, your son would make:
$2655/month base pay
$223/month subsistence allowance
$1081/month basic allowance for housing (if not in the BOQ)

Here's a link to a website that explains military pay fairly well. It has further links to the actual pay numbers. http://www.military-money-matters.com/military-pay.html
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
As others have said, a car will be a necessity. The career starter loans are great. I got a car, some furniture, and uniforms with mine. That loan started getting paid off with my first Uncle Sam paycheck, so I never missed the money. I knew some folks who had student loans as Ensigns from situations as you've described, and their pay was more than adequate to cover that and to allow them to live comfortably.

It's great of you to cover your son's room and board expenses. My folks were able to do the same thing and it allowed me to concentrate on school and not making money to survive (just making enough to drink).
 

Birdog8585

Milk and Honey
pilot
Contributor
I agree with Hal. Most likely your son will find some roommates during Flight Training which will cut down on monthly expenses substantially. He will have plenty of money left over each month to begin to take on other financial responsibilities (including entertainment :D).

As far as 'the typical debt for NROTC grads' portion, it depends. If he pics up a scholarship (I'm assuming he hasn't), then all of his tuition, fees, and books will be covered. He will also get a few extra hundred bucks a month (stipend) in his pocket. That debt is not owed back financially, instead it is traded for service obligation.

I am an NROTC grad and picked up a scholarship my sophomore year. So my college financial debt upon graduation was for the loans that I had to take out previous to receiving the scholarship. I did also obtain the USAA pre-commissioning loan so I had that debt as well. That is a wise decision, however, as I paid off some school debt, credit cards, and other things for an insanely low interest. I recommend the same for your son.

A car, in my opinion, is a must. You are now an officer, a professional and you should have a car. Period.

It sounds like you and your husband are great parents and because of that he will be fine.
 

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
I graduated with 106K in student loans and while I lived cheaply as an ENS, I made it fine and had my own apartment, and this was back when ENS pay was about $1000/mo less between lower base pay, BAS and BAH. My student loan payments were around $1100/mo

He's not going to be living hand to mouth if he has no school debt. Far from it. Now if you really want to keep him from living hand to mouth, make sure he understands "stay single thru your first deployment"
 

desertoasis

Something witty.
None
Contributor
I graduated with just over 50k in debt, and I make on average 3600 a month after 3 months in the Navy. I bought a car with cash (as everyone should, financing a car is flushing money down the toilet) and can't imagine how I'd get along without it. Pensacola is sort of a spread-out town, and unless you have a BUNCH of friends in town with you, its hard getting around unless you have your own means.

The best piece of advice I can tell you to pass on is to learn to cook. It might seem like a silly thing to advise, but buying ingredients and cooking for yourself, instead of buying prepared food like Stouffers stuff (and fast food as well) makes a HUGE difference in your month-to-month expenses. The other piece of advice is to not indulge in the frivolities of the newfound income...a big screen TV might be fun when you first get it, but when you're ears deep in IFS and API studying, it won't get used much (or shouldnt, anyway)

Past that, paying off school debts and credit cards and such should be no sweat, as long as you doesn't spend as fast as you pay down. If I stick to my plan, I should be debt free within 36 months.

Best of luck to you and your children! PM me if you want to discuss more, I've basically been on my own since junior year of college and have learned the hard way about the best way to manage my finances.

Hope that helps!
 

Daisy

New Member
Thanks very much folks for taking the time to reply. I appreciate the advice and personal insight.

To clarify, my son has a 4 year NROTC scholarship. I take it that means he's contracted at this point since he's past his freshman year. The Navy pays his tuition, books fee, student fees and a stipend.

The USAA starter loan program and financial counseling look very good. The terms are exceptional and I hope are still being offered when my son graduates. (Thanks Flash for that link)

It's a relief to know that he will make enough money to cover moderate expenses if we need to factor in student loans. Thanks HAL Pilot for the link to the military pay explanations. I was able to find the base pay for O-1 that you referenced. It's more than I had realized.

I didn't know that military pay is uniform for all of the branches. That will help with planning for the next son who may go ROTC or WP.

It's really nice to be left out of the car acquisition.
 
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