Enlisted to Officer?

[fraz76]

MC
Here is the deal in my opinion if you want to learn Chinese then take a course in college on your own time. Cause it make no sense in learning Chinese as a CTI, IF your goal is to apply for OCS. Yeah its cool that the Navy sent you to DFLI in Caly but if your goal is to be an Officer stick with it.

But let me warn you that an Officer is a Leader, and a Manager with different responsbilities in the Fleet. If you are not up for this commitment then you need to check yourself. Now if you want to learn how it is to be an enlisted sailor then you need to get some SALT (time in the Navy, like at least 4yrs and the work ups plus a 6-month Deployment). Cause applying to OCS after you finish "A or C" Language School doesnt mean anything, you still dont have any real world experience in the Navy.

Some Officer do get Language school but it depends on the following command you are going to report to. Like Intel Officer do get language school for Naval Attache billet at Embassies. Some Crytpo Officer gets it also but like you said they are not required.

WFU2USN is right, you can still be eligilbe for the GI BILL. You can used that and take Chinese on your off time at night school or Law School part time but that will be kinda tough with time and commitment to your duties depending on where you are stationed. If you become an Officer and decide to go to law school in the Navy, you can lateral transfer when you are a LTJG/ LT to the JAG Corp and Law school. I hope you checkout the link that WFU2USN provided you.

Yes there are some cool school/training for enlisted personnals and their are also some cool school/training for officers. Different Job but the same mission.

Enlisted personnal do respect Officer, They just have to EARN IT. Being a former blue shirt we dont care if you graduate from the Acadamy, ROTC, or OCS. WE CARE ABOUT THEIR WORD, COMMITMENT TO THEIR MEN and WOMEN under their COMMAND and THE MISSION. Its all about your reputation as good Officer. If you are a dirt bag then you are not going to get the respect, just the military courtesy (Yes, Sir / No, Sir). Once you get your commission you earn your privieges in the Navy as an Officer where some enlisted personnal dont get. RHIP: Rank has it privieges.

You must sit down and ask yourself these questions:
What do I want to do in the NAVY?
What job closely relate to what I want to do in the Navy?
What are my goals in the Navy and in life so far?
It's also great that you are thinking about the civlian world in the long run now, if you are not going to making the Navy a Career. Like law school. But you never know, you might stay in. Just plan to stay in and plan to get out.

For your comment on the uneducated Enlisted personnal is some what true about enlisted personnal are not all educated from college, But it doesnt mean they are not smart or educated on their own. College education doesnt always mean that the indivdual is smart. It just mean they have accomplished a task and commitment. And the Navy see that and give them an oppurtunity for a position to be an Officer. FATTOUGH is also so on point, cause there are also many college educated enlisted personnal.

 

[fraz76]

If CTI is your thing then go for that route. Like I said earlier its a rate that has many oppurnities to work in various warfare communities. Ex. Aircrew, Suface, SpecWar Combantant Crewmember, Subs. Just look into.

Dont think that you are getting over by going to CTI language school and then pulling the ripcord to OCS. Cause it can take awhile to get your application in for OCS. Just Murphy's Law. And that might just delay your plans.

I wish you the best of luck,
"if need help just give me a call I'ill fly with you."

Respectfully
Fraz76 (Former RM2, 4yrs, 2 BaltOps, 1 CounterDrugOps, 1 MedCruise)

 

[hawkdocfmf]

There are plenty of formally educated enlisted members and while there are many that are not remember one thing if you do go to OCS and go to the fleet you can pretty much bet the 20 year old E2-E3 knows a hell of a lot more about the navy and quite possibly your responsibilities as their division officer. You must earn their respect and they expect your respect as well.

former Petty Officer 2nd Class and now Ensign

 

[Undertow]

it took me over a year before I could get my package together after enlisting. There are a hell of allot of obstacles that you will come across once you're in, they don't hand you anything and really can't help you too much, it's part of finding out how resourceful you are just don't think you'll get picked up in A School or C School just because you have a masters. I know 3 people who applied while I was going through A school and 2 of them had engineering degrees and 1 computer science, none of them were accepted and they were all "**** hot" sailors as well. In regards to uneducated enlisted personnel, I have 1 year of college and came into the navy after making $52k/yr. at the age of 23 doing conceptual artwork, graphic design and network installation for reputable gaming companies in the Pacific North West. I'm now 25 and just getting things accomplished.
-Mike

 

[dividebyzero]

Whoa!
Hold on a minute.
First off, before you go assuming that you'll get chinese at DLI, what're your DLAB scores? Do you have any civilian experience w/ Chinese, or any other language for that matter?

Chinese is hardly a given in the Navy anymore. Unless you have a DLAB of at least 100, you can forget it. Disregard the rumors and papework to the contrary. The backlog at DLI is also pretty bad, some people find themselves on hold for class for up to a year. As a result, there's an equally good chance of getting assigned another language entirely.

Recruiters CANNOT guarantee languages, the detailers at Great Lake CANNOT guarantee languages. It's just not possible.

That being said, *if* you do decide to go on as a CTI, I would settle for no less than Arabic or Chinese. Persian-Farsi maybe, if it comes down to it, but those are the only entry-level languages that have any sort of future. I cannot emphasize that enough.

I'm assuming you're not a female. But, if you were, you could (obviously) rule out subs, swcc, and actually, even riding ships as linguistic support.

I have to agree with the person who suggested just taking night or some other civilian-type class for Chinese on your own time, and just going officer. In retrospect, it's what I wish I had done. As a URL officer, with good DLAB scores and prior language experience, you stand a good chance of going to DLI for language training later in your career, and thus having the benefit of language training AND a fufilling, challenging job in a URL community (excluding SWO, of course ;-). CT officers do not go to DLI for language training.

All my personal bitterness aside, another damned good and damned feasible option has occured to me. It's not uncommon for enlisted members to go through the entire 64-weeks or so course, and put in their OCS packages towards the end. NTTCD Monterey is a pretty small command, and has very few OCS applications to consider, and I know several people who have done this.

In any case, good luck to you. If you have any questions about the perilous but eventful world of the CTI, feel free to ask me.

 

[spsiratt]

dividebyzero, good post save a couple of comments. Almost all of what you said was right on target, but I have to disagree with you on the bit about Arabic, Chinese and maybe Persian-Farsi being the only entry-level languages with any sort of future. As far as the military goes, you could get just about any language and still have a job and possibly enen apply to a low-flow language later if you wanted to. From the civilian government side, the agency and the company have slots for just about any language in the book if your proficiency is high enough and you can maintain a clearance. As for civilian companies, there are openings for all kinds of languages. I know a former German/Romanian linguist working for Lucent. Spanish/Albanian working for HP. And if nothing else, the clearance will get you a job with Raytheon. Arabic and Chinese are obviously popular with the government right now as well as Korean, but they really don't carry much advantage in the civilian market. Just my $.02.

 

[Borncreole]

Look, apply for OCS, then reapply, reapply, reapply, reapply, reapply, reapply, reapply, reapply, reapply, reapply, reapply, reapply. Don't go Enlisted with your degree. Persistance will get you accepted and get with your OSO to find out howe to beef up your package. It IS NOT WORTH going enlisted first just to applu to OCS will you are under training.

 

[dividebyzero]

Sorry it took so long for me to respond, I'd completely forgotten about the thread.

In all honesty, as far as the Navy goes, Persian-Farsi, Arabic, and Chinese are honestly the only entry level (as in, taught at DLI West) languages worth anything and that have any sort of future. DLI has a bad habit of offering scores of languages that the military generally doesn't have a use for anymore (Russian, Spanish especially). Russian, in fact, is 300% overmanned in the Navy! Granted, that's not considering only AD personnel, but it's still ridiculous compared to say, Chinese, which is about 25% *undermanned*.

I work with quite a few contractors, and yes, if you do go the LCTL route after primary training (less commonly taught languages, the new linguistic community buzzword), civilian companies will be all over you. But, as far as your military career, unless you get something obvious like Kurdish (not a Navy option right now) or Indonesian, you're not going to be doing a whole lot with it.

In all honesty, the Air Force does have one of the best linguistic programs in the military, following (hold on to you seats) the Marine Corps. As far as the Marines go, if you already have one language, and you want another one that they really need, you'll get it. Air Force is about the same, with a little bit more complications and red tape involved. Navy however, is like pushing a boulder with a twizzle stick.

In any case, back to the original post. I'd have to agree and say just stick with going straight for OCS. Then, when you're commissioned, take the DLAB. If you score well enough, and they specifically need to send officers for language training (oddly enough, *only* URL officers are sent to the respective DLI's or FSI.), they'll send you.

 

[AZSkegee]

Hey Borncreole, I take offense to you swaying someone to not go enlisted with there degree. I have done the same thing, and currently working on my Masters. The only assests you give up is higher rank, pay, and other officer priveledges. I admit that enlisted life has its days. I stand watches with an M16, M60 and soon to be 9mm, an Officer Stands the OOD with a 9mm, so I am his first line on defense if there were something to happen to our ship. I use that example for all to see you have positions of leadership and great trust put upon you as enlisted. Either Army, USMC (OORAHH), Airforce, and Navy (HOOYAHH), the enlisted person will accomplish and perform many great and admirable tasks as well as their officer counterparts.

 

[dividebyzero]

That's all well and good, but as far as plain cost-benefits analysis goes, going the officer route first makes much more sense, if for no other reasons than the money and the broader career opportunities alone.

If someone's just planning of doing 4 or so years to pick up a skill and get out, then enlisted is clearly the way to go. Otherwise, I just cant agree with you that going enlisted is somehow a better route.

 

[AZSkegee]

Im not saying going enlisted is the better route, it depends on people and their circumstances. But I disagree with people who view going enlisted as a bad or terrible thing, I become greatly offended when people say that. They dont know what all I went through or obstacles I had to travel to get to the point I am at today.

 

[SaiyanCivic]

Originally posted by EODDave
MC,

Apply as soon as you can. Just remember that when you get to OCS, that it is boot camp all over agian. Just play the silly games and you'll do fine.

Dave

LOL

 

[pedro_vargas]

Quick question... I am in a similar situation, already enlisted though, have a degree in Electrical Engineering and planning to apply to OCS for the Cryptology designator. I have been enlisted only for 9 months, and I am an MR (machinery repairman) because I did not have a citizenship and could not get a clearance yet to get into CT. Now I was awarded citizenship and I am wondering if the the Cryptology designator is open for all enlisted regardless of their rate or if it is exclusively for ct's?

 

[04Hopeful]

Pedro:

I looked into joining the Reserves while I was applying for OCS, and after talking the recruiter and him getting in touch with CT community they would get me into CT since my immediate family(parents) aren't US citizens. I also spoke with my Officer recruiter and well I got two conflicting answer, when I called him on the phone he said that he has put in several packages similar to mine and they were all rejected, then 2 months later I went to take the ASTB and scored a 69 and he tells me that I should put my package and that the citizenship of my parents didn't matter (of course I didn't tell him what he had told me previously) So, I really just suggest you put your package in and see what shakes out, its best to have tried and failed then to not have tried at all. my $0.02 worth