Enlisted to Officer vs. 'Outside' to Officer

[eyes2theskies]

So I was checking out "this morning's A-pool" mayhem, and it brings me to a point I'm pondering about becoming an Officer:

What are the experiences of Officers coming from the outside, versus those coming up from within?

I myself have been considering enlisting before I become an Officer because I'd rather be an Officer to men and women whose jobs I understand (or can do myself, or at least whose lifestyles I understand) than come in from the outside and end up unwittingly acting like a jacka$$ to these guys who have been working their butts off long before I arrived. Not to mention the fact that I also want to test myself in boot camp.

Any thoughts on being an outsider-Officer versus an insider?

 

[Uncle Fester]

It's a common question, search around in the "paths to a commission" forums.

Short answer: if you want to become an officer, apply to an officer program. No matter what the recruiter tells you, enlisting is one of the worst (or at least, most uncertain and difficult) paths to officership.

 

[eyes2theskies]

Oh, thanks. Uncertain and difficult, eh? Sounds like a challenge to me :]

Can I delete my thread and save some space?

 

[squorch2]

It may end up being a challenge you literally cannot win due to timing or other things.

 

[Morgan81]

I'm not sure there is much of a difference in some cases.
Background: I was in corporate I.T. (Fortune 100 companies) for years before going to OCS. I started in a very crappy position and worked my way up to where I was responsible for a global department and had a staff under me directly and indirectly. From talking to prior enlisted guys I went through / are going through OCS/API/Primary/Advanced with, I don't see much differences in the lessons we were both taught. Yes, I didn't have to salute my old bosses or call them Sir, but I did have to put up with them when they were screaming at me even though the situation was completly their fault and I had to do the seemingly impossible with little help from managment.
A large organization is very similar in how it behaves. No, it wasn't the size of the Navy or DoD but when your job is working with 100,000+ people around the globe you will learn the some of the same lessons in leadership (good and bad), what makes people want to work and habits of people that are universal (the same errors in projects that keep happening regardless of company, location and level) that are taught through years of experience in the Navy. Am I saying it is exactly the same? Of course not. I'm just saying that the differences from outsiders vs insiders as you say, are not very large and in short time, O-1's are O-1's.
Jackasses are jackasses, no matter where they're from, what background they have or wherever they attained their commission. You can't assume that because you take a certain path that you will be/won't be a jackass yourself.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Yup. Don't get into the "oh, but it's a challenge and I can overcome it because I'm a winner!" mentality. Big Navy cares not for your dreams, and I've seen more than a few clever and deserving petty officers get turned down for officer programs for reasons entirely outside their control. They're in an undermanned rate, for example, or you're the only one a squadron about to deploy with a critical NEC, so "we can't let you go this year, but maybe next year."

One way that the Navy is like the outside world: being irreplaceable also means you can't be promoted.

Besides, being a prior is no proof against looking like a jackass.

 

[PropAddict]

Besides, being a prior is no proof against looking like a jackass.

Oh, so true.

I've seen some priors come out acting like the shit because "they know the other side of the job", too, and don't need the input from their E's.

Also, if you're going to enlist simply to become an officer: I would say that's a bad reason. You won't really be enlisted, you'll just a short-timer who thinks he's better than his co-workers and wants to climb that ladder out of there ASAP. Those folks aren't well-liked in the enlisted shops.

If you have that drive and desire to be challenged: think of it as an even bigger challenge to learn about and understand your people having not been in their shoes. It can show a lot of care for your people and humility to ask them about their job and be legitimately interested in learning.

 

[eyes2theskies]

Hmmm.... ok. Thanks.

Yeah a jackass is a jackass is a jackass.

Wow, good point about not being replaceable = not being promotable. I'm definitely not trying to get stuck anywhere

You guys know anything about nuke guys becoming pilots? Does it happen? Is it common? Is it not uncommon?

 

[eyes2theskies]

Oh man, yeah I can definitely see both of those positions backfiring. Right, the jackass is in you, or it isn't.

It definitely would be a great challenge to arrive at some semblance of understanding my group's positions and backgrounds with no first-hand experience. Fortunately, I'm an interested person, so I would be asking them all about it, regardless. I hadn't been thinking of that inquisitiveness in such a positive light though. Thanks for the encouragement, Prop!

 

[squorch2]

I've seen a couple of nuke enlisted guys come through - mostly because they got picked up for ROTC/STA-21 while at power school. Once you're trained, you're damn near invaluable to the nuke program. I can't imagine a nuke officer transitioning.

 

[navy09]

You guys know anything about nuke guys becoming pilots? Does it happen? Is it common? Is it not uncommon?

It definitely happens. STA-21 seems to produce a decent amount of pilots/NFOs from the nuke community.

 

[PropAddict]

I went to Boat Skool with two nuke priors. One was a guy who got picked up right out of power school and the other one did a patrol on a boomer before he got picked up.

One got NFO, the other got distracted firstie year by all the Nuke money and went back.

 

[eyes2theskies]

No STA-21 for me, I've got my Bachelor's already, Interdisciplinary Studies. Reallllly doesn't help much - that's why I'm looking at picking up my math, physics, and basic engineering from nuke school. If they don't take me straight away into OCS that is...

Oh, and, I'm not easily distracted by money. Even large sums of it. Whew. I am however easily distracted by things in the sky.

 

[red_ryder]

College is way more fun, for the win. Case closed.

 

[Flash]

I can't imagine a nuke officer transitioning.

I personally knew one and know of one other. But like SEALs becoming pilots, it is very rare.