Engineering civilian job on side

[Al. Poison]

So I just got FINSEL for OCS SNA designation. My current employer is PISSED, anyways he was wondering if during the break between OCS and flight school (assuming I get through OCS and make it to flight school). If I could come back and work for him. Talked to my recruiter who said it was ok as long as my employer understands that military duties come first, no matter what. Employer said he was fine with that. Anyways, not sure I want to come back and work for him in the first place, seeing as how much of a massive tool bag he is... Whoops, I mean such a nice guy. But this got me thinking, for engineers you need a certain amount of hours to be qualified for what is known as the P.E. license (professional engineering license). Would it be possible, and how bad of an idea/stressful would it be, to work a part time engineering job during flight school, mainly to accrue hours for the P.E. license?

 

[ea6bflyr]

So I just got FINSEL for OCS SNA designation. My current employer is PISSED, anyways he was wondering if during the break between OCS and flight school (assuming I get through OCS and make it to flight school). If I could come back and work for him. Talked to my recruiter who said it was ok as long as my employer understands that military duties come first, no matter what. Employer said he was fine with that. Anyways, not sure I want to come back and work for him in the first place, seeing as how much of a massive tool bag he is... Whoops, I mean such a nice guy. But this got me thinking, for engineers you need a certain amount of hours to be qualified for what is known as the P.E. license (professional engineering license). Would it be possible, and how bad of an idea/stressful would it be, to work a part time engineering job during flight school, mainly to accrue hours for the P.E. license?

Geez. Do you want to be a pilot or do you want to be an engineer? You will be challenged during flight school and the down time you do get should be spent unwinding (drinking beer, hanging out, gaming, etc). Maybe you could work on your P.E. license on deployment or during your first shore tour.

As far as your employer goes, as soon as you leave, don't go back. You can thank me later.

BTW, your recruiter doesn't know the law. You would need to consult a JAG to ensure there is no conflict of interest between the Navy and the former employer before you could legally work while on leave.

 

[Gatordev]

Let's forget about the legal issues, or even the idea that you would go work right after OCS instead of enjoying the down time. Let's just look at the simple mechanics of how this would play out...

When you show up to A-Pool, there's a bunch of hoops you have to jump through. Some of those hoops may be quick, some may not. Depending on where the pig is in the snake, you may class up right away. But even more importantly, you need to understand what you're joining. This is the Navy, and as someone new to the Navy, your life is not your own. Even crusty guys like ea6bflyr have to be legally accounted for during normal working hours and/or for more than 48-72 hours.

So if you did go back to work, how would you be accounted for? You won't have enough leave for it to be worthwhile. The Navy can't write you orders to your job because "P.E. license." The very best the Navy could do is write you orders for Recruiting Duty, but again, that would mean you'd actually have to show up at the Recruiters (at least some of the time), so that's not necessarily all that practical for the other job.

The whole idea just seems like a non-starter.

 

[Pags]

This is a TERRIBLE idea.

1. Do you want to be an aviator or an engineer? Make up your mind and go all in on one.
2. Sounds like you and your employer aren't on the best of terms. Why bother spending your free time helping this guy? If he's upset that he has a seat to fill, that's his problem, not yours. You shouldn't consider yourself obligated to help him out past the point of your leaving.
3. As the earlier replies have pointed out, once you complete OCS and head to flight school you're a FULL TIME Navy employee. There is no guarantee of a break between OCS and flight school and even if you have down time, you'd have to use leave (aka vacation days) to leave the area of your permanent duty station.
4. Why bother? Your chances of accruing enough engineering hours during your the initial part of your budding Naval Career to maintain a PE license are SLIM TO ZERO. You'll be working as a Naval Officer and an Aviator. Any certifications for other lines of work are USELESS.
5. Your chances of doing engineering work on the side once you get through flight school are SLIM to ZERO. You can plan on working a 60-80 hr work week during your first fleet tour. A lot of your spare time outside of work will be spent studying for aircraft qualifications. If you want to fill the rest of your spare time with work, more power to you.
5. If you do end up having a lot of time off between stages of flight school, you might be able to pursue some part time engineering work conducted from a distance. If you decide to do this, I'd highly recommend you look in to working as a consultant vice a part time employee. Since you'd already have benefits, you can just maximize what you charge per hour.

 

[Sonog]

how bad of an idea

 

[Uncle Fester]

Your current employer may be pissed...tough shit for him. You're leaving for a better job with better opportunities. You have no obligation to help him out on the side, and given that you're already describing him as a "massive toolbag," it eludes my understanding why you're even considering it.

It won't help you professionally as an engineer and you won't have the time for it anyway. There was somebody else on here a few months back asking a similar question (it was about helping friends start a business, as I recall). So you'll get the same advice: think of flight school like medical school. Lots of work, lots of studying, and what little free time you do have, you're not going to want to use for a second job.

 

[Al. Poison]

Thanks for the replies all, your insight is invaluable.

I currently do work as an engineering consultant for my state's DOT airport engineering division. I mostly was concerned with assisting my client (the state), who I have a great relationship with, and not my boss (manager). The issue is that I care about the use of taxpayer dollars and maximizing the effectiveness of state project money, which my particular client appreciates, and has lead to our team being one of the most effective project management teams in the state. Which is why I considered going back to assist during "down time".

From reading these replies I definitely understand the fact that flight school and becoming a good officer is going to be a lot of hard work and I will need to put 100% to get through it. It seems like anything to distract me from this goal is unproductive. From knowing what I know about work on the civilian side, I should think of this like a retraining, and focus on becoming very good at what I do before looking around for additional opportunities.

Ultimately, I would like to become a great officer, a great aviator, and a great engineer.

 

[AllAmerican75]

Thanks for the replies all, your insight is invaluable.
I currently do work as an engineering consultant for my state's DOT airport engineering division. I mostly was concerned with assisting my client (the state), who I have a great relationship with, and not my boss (manager). The issue is that I care about the use of taxpayer dollars and maximizing the effectiveness of state project money, which my particular client appreciates, and has lead to our team being one of the most effective project management teams in the state. Which is why I considered going back to assist during "down time".
From reading these replies I definitely understand the fact that flight school and becoming a good officer is going to be a lot of hard work and I will need to put 100% to get through it. It seems like anything to distract me from this goal is unproductive. From knowing what I know about work on the civilian side, I should think of this like a retraining, and focus on becoming very good at what I do before looking around for additional opportunities.
Ultimately, I would like to become a great officer, a great aviator, and a great engineer.

I'm not an aviator but I am an engineer and an OCS grad, so take my advice for what it's worth: OCS is going to suck and you will have little time to coordinate going back home to work. But, if your PE is really important to you, you can still earn it while in the Navy. Your job as a Naval Officer is technical enough that you can fudge the required time in a technical field. You also have the ability to earn your Masters on the Navy's dime, but studying for the exam and conducting the mandatory professional education time will all be on your own time, as most communities (with the exception of the Civil Engineering Corps) don't care if you have a PE License or not. If you eventually want to go back to the engineering world, look into becoming an Aviation Engineering Duty Officer or Engineering Duty Officer once you're back on shore tour after rocking out your first tour at sea.

 

[Pags]

Your job as a Naval Officer is technical enough that you can fudge the required time in a technical field.

Requirements for PE vary by state, but generally they seem to require more hard engineering work than most Naval Aviators would have exposure to. Think designing an airplane vice flying one.

If you eventually want to go back to the engineering world, look into becoming an Aviation Engineering Duty Officer or Engineering Duty Officer once you're back on shore tour after rocking out your first tour at sea.

Naval Aviators would have to finish out their initial commitment before they can transfer to the AEDO community, usually sometime around the 9yr career mark. Most of the work that AEDOs do is more in line with Program/Project/Engineering management than "hard" engineering that would be required for a PE certification. Whether this would qualify for PE would be up to the OP's state's PE board.

 

[PenguinGal]

Many states, when you read the regulations for the PE, allow for a reduced amount of time to count towards a PE for military service. E.g., if you serve 3 years in the military in a technical/engineering field the state might count that as 1 year. This will vary by state but does help officers obtain a PE.

Have you taken the FE?

 

[azguy]

If you do decide to pursue this while waiting to class up for flight school, I would definitely get your CO's buy in and get it blessed in writing by your CO's JAG. There are legal and ethical restrictions on what you can do on the side while on active duty. Your situation would probably be fine, but you don't want people to have fuzzy memories if something comes up and written permission really helps to clear things up.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I currently do work as an engineering consultant for my state's DOT airport engineering division. I mostly was concerned with assisting my client (the state), who I have a great relationship with, and not my boss (manager). The issue is that I care about the use of taxpayer dollars and maximizing the effectiveness of state project money, which my particular client appreciates, and has lead to our team being one of the most effective project management teams in the state. Which is why I considered going back to assist during "down time".

I am willing to bet you are feeling more of an obligation to them then they feel to you, if they had to make a business decision and you were the one getting cut I doubt they would have a second thought.

Have this sense of obligation to those you will be serving with.

 

[Brett327]

Good points all around. Learning has occurred.

Next caller, please...

 

[MIDNJAC]

This is a really dumb/bad idea. I can't think of a single time in the last 7+ years of flight school/RAG/fleet/Shore tour that I would have had the time to "work on the side as an engineer". Good luck to you if you go that route, but I promise that you will fail at one of the two endeavors. That isn't a challenge, like the kind of one where you look back proudly and proclaim "they said I couldn't and then I did".....that is just the reality of the matter.

 

[AllAmerican75]

Requirements for PE vary by state, but generally they seem to require more hard engineering work than most Naval Aviators would have exposure to. Think designing an airplane vice flying one.
Naval Aviators would have to finish out their initial commitment before they can transfer to the AEDO community, usually sometime around the 9yr career mark. Most of the work that AEDOs do is more in line with Program/Project/Engineering management than "hard" engineering that would be required for a PE certification. Whether this would qualify for PE would be up to the OP's state's PE board.

Like PenguinGal said, there's some leeway in how that counts. Also, since there's no Aeronautical Engineering PE license, it won't matter if that's his preferred flavor of engineering. But you're right, if he's not in the AEDO/EDO/CEC community, it'll be hard for him to find that wiggle room. I'd say the only other communities that could do it are SWO, SUB, IW, and IP, just given the nature of their work.

EDIT: Dismantling bombs is pretty technical, right? So maybe EOD could count, too.